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Discussion Starter #1
The Rare Breed Triggers FRT-15. FRT = Forced Reset Trigger. Or to get right to the point, a "bump stock" trigger. :eek:


Discussion at Snipers Hide.
Discussion at ar-15.com
Discussion at TTAG.
A spiffy video by the distributor.

Just like the infamous and now banned "bump stocks", the FRT-15 works on basically the same principle. Pull the trigger and hold it back, the gun fires one round, the BCG moves rearward causing the hammer to reset the trigger, the "locking bar" (which looks an awful lot like an auto sear) locks the trigger, the BCG comes forward which disengages the "locking bar" allowing the cycle to continue. The operative part of that sequence is that the trigger is reset and must be pulled again for the next round to fire. It's a semi-auto trigger. You can fire a single shot or you can fire a whole bunch of single shots very rapidly.

This isn't a binary trigger. It fires a round only on the trigger pull, not on the pull and then on the release.

It's not a full auto trigger since the trigger is reset and must be pulled for each successive shot. Therefore, it doesn't meet the definition of "machine gun" per 26 USC 5845(b) 2018 US Code :: Title 26 - Internal Revenue Code :: Subtitle E - Alcohol, Tobacco, and Certain Other Excise Taxes :: Chapter 53 - Machine Guns, Destructive Devices, and Certain Other Firearms :: Subchapter B - General Provisions and Exemptions :: Part I - General Provisions :: Sec. 5845 - Definitions

Read the discussions if you have the time. An apparent flaw was discovered and some folks on ar-15.com and Snipers Hide have come up with a fix.

Yeah, we all know the "bump stock" has been deemed a "machine gun" and therefore illegal by the ATF. We also know that's bullshit because technically it doesn't meet the legal definition. Will the FRT-15 trigger meet the same end? Who knows but this is still America and the 2nd Amendment is still law of the land as is 26 USC 5845(b) even though the ATF has illegally changed its meaning.

Would I buy one of these? Damn right I would. But first I'd like to see the company make these 100% functional. That little spring can turn these into expensive paperweights.
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Note to gunsmoker. Check out the company's lawyer. He knows how to choose a tie! (y) :ROFLMAO:
 
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Man of Myth and Legend
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Tie is good. Vest is doublesuperamazingterrific.

Nemo
 

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That is awesome, great F-U to the ATF as well with the shoulder firing of AR-pistols. I won't buy one mainly because that rate of fire is hazardous to my wallet.
 

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Man of Myth and Legend
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I would buy one. Try it on a brick and uninstall it. Kept close and available should the foreseeable need arrive in the future.

Nemo
 

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Id buy one but the FRT15 has a design flaw. The reset spring is set at a 90° to the sear and the spring will eventually get pinched and the trigger will not reset. The spring hole needs to be drilled at a 45° angle so the sear swings and compresses the spring inline. If your FRT hasn't failed it only a matter of time and theres no fix. Needs to be redesigned.

ETA: Sorry Moe. Your post was TL;DR and didn't see that you addressed the trigger design flaw. Lol
 

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Note to gunsmoker. Check out the company's lawyer. He knows how to choose a tie! (y) :ROFLMAO:

C02A6B10-7BFA-40FF-8166-7AD55E4EF68C.jpeg
1E2A1CF7-A64B-4B9A-81AD-5AA40D92EEC9.jpeg


Old fuddy-duddy wearing a geriatric tie.
I'm sticking to my fun neckties.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
ETA: Sorry Moe. Your post was TL;DR and didn't see that you addressed the trigger design flaw. Lol
No problem. Yeah, it was a bit long. I should have followed MP's approach and made 6 posts out of it! :ROFLMAO:
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Old fuddy-duddy wearing a geriatric tie.
I'm sticking to my fun neckties.
It's really more than just the tie. It's the whole persona. The tie, the vest (my mother had seat covers like that!), the "fine Corinthian leather" (thank you, Ricardo), the facial hair, etc. It's like wrestling legend Lex Luger. The total package. :D

17895
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yeah, we all know the "bump stock" has been deemed a "machine gun" and therefore illegal by the ATF. Will the FRT-15 trigger meet the same end? Who knows...
I recalled last night that the ATF recently (a few months ago?) requested all charges as well as the case itself be dismissed in one of the bump stock trials that was then active. It seemed they didn't want the defense to call a certain witness, who I think was a former ATF "expert" or something, who would have undermined their reasoning for classifying the bump stock as a machine gun. I'm pretty sure we discussed it here but I'm not going to go look for it. If I remember that correctly, then I'm giving this trigger better than even odds for success.

Oh, and if you own a Colt lower receiver you're gonna need your smith to mill out that stupid sear web material. It blocks the rear of the FRT-15 cartridge from fitting in the fire control cavity.
 

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Read the discussions if you have the time. An apparent flaw was discovered and some folks on ar-15.com and Snipers Hide have come up with a fix.
Does it appear to work? Why hasn't the seller incorporated this fix?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Does it appear to work? Why hasn't the seller incorporated this fix?
Yes, it does. Rare Breed, however, claims the design is fine as is and the "problem" is the result of fat fingered owners fingering the locking bar when they shouldn't be. However, there's no warning to that effect in the instructions.

As I understand it, the locking bar has a total angle of movement of X degrees from vertical. I don't know what it is but for discussion purposes lets say it's 45* from vertical. In actual use, however, the locking bar is only meant to move a smaller distance, Y degrees, let's call it 10* from vertical. That actually makes sense because the rear of the BCG only engages the locking bar near the end of its cycle, as it goes into battery. The BCG can't move forward any further, therefore the locking bar can't move any further along its arc from vertical. There's an animation video on their website that clearly shows this.

Rare Breed is saying that owners are manually fiddling with the locking bar, moving it through a much larger arc than it was designed to use and therefore kinking the involved spring. I guess they didn't foresee that humans love to interact with things mechanical. They should either include a warning in the package stating the potential problem or redesign the locking bar area with something that physically limits the amount of travel it can do.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
That's a perfect example of people assuming that locking bar is supposed to go through a huge arc when functioning. According to Rare Breed and as shown in their animated video, it's not. The locking bar's actual movement is minimal which would/should negate the spring from becoming kinked.
 

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The design he suggests to correct the issue would also correct the customer error issue. It would be hard to retrain an entire indusrry to not follow through on a trigger pull.

My fostech trigger has the opposite issue. The reset is a little more forward so you have to train yourself to make a full cycle of the trigger to reach that second reset.

Both triggers sound like a training issue. But if the FRT has a quick fix then they should listen to the customers.
 
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