It looks to me like it's the other way around -- prohibited unless the the owner allows it.
Bars
Just to be clear, unless otherwise stated by the owner, it is perfectly legal to carry in bars now, correct?
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The big "question mark" is what "allows" actually means. There was a long discussion of this back when SB308 was signed into law. I don't believe there was a definitive answer (at least not one on which everyone agreed) and I have not heard of a test case yet.
Bleh, better leave it in the car I guess.
I would probably do that and maybe ask the owner first if you can find him/her.pwrlifter12 said:Bleh, better leave it in the car I guess.
The other line of reasoning is that if you see other patrons carrying and no one is doing anything about it, then there is a good assumption that the owner "allows" carry.
Keep in mind that a "bar" is not the same thing as an establishment licensed to serve alcohol.
(1) "Bar" means an establishment that is devoted to the serving of alcoholic beverages for consumption by guests on the premises and in which the serving of food is only incidental to the consumption of those beverages, including, but not limited to, taverns, nightclubs, cocktail lounges, and cabarets.
I cant remember the last time I was at a "bar". I do carry when the wife and I go out for drinks though. I am an avid OC'er but CC when going out to have some drinks.
Or, the cops that were on the way to arrest 4 people will, now that you're here, get to arrest 5.mb90535im said:The other line of reasoning is that if you see other patrons carrying and no one is doing anything about it, then there is a good assumption that the owner "allows" carry.
Owner doesn't give ME permission or post a permission sign/statement, then I don't have permission. I think the downside is too big for assumptions. YMMV.
I have heard people arguing in conversation that the lack of a sign is implied permission. It's not something I'm going to explore the limits of, myself.RickN said:Or, the cops that were on the way to arrest 4 people will, now that you're here, get to arrest 5.mb90535im said:The other line of reasoning is that if you see other patrons carrying and no one is doing anything about it, then there is a good assumption that the owner "allows" carry.
Owner doesn't give ME permission or post a permission sign/statement, then I don't have permission. I think the downside is too big for assumptions. YMMV.
I thought it had something to do with the property bringing in more than 50% of it's revenue to be classified as a bar. If it brings in more than 50% earning by alcohol, you can't carry.
That was changed by SB308 earlier this year.dfbaseball said:I thought it had something to do with the property bringing in more than 50% of it's revenue to be classified as a bar. If it brings in more than 50% earning by alcohol, you can't carry.
(1) "Bar" means an establishment that is devoted to the serving of alcoholic beverages for consumption by guests on the premises and in which the serving of food is only incidental to the consumption of those beverages, including, but not limited to, taverns, nightclubs, cocktail lounges, and cabarets.
I have actually been CCing in bars in Savannah on occasion. I have actually only talked to one bar own who said he was okay with it as long as I didn't get drunk, which I would never do while carrying my gun. I will have a drink or two, but if it's going to be more than that I will leave it at home. As far as the actual interpretation of the law goes I have no idea.
What bar, if you dont mind.175FO said:I have actually been CCing in bars in Savannah on occasion. I have actually only talked to one bar own who said he was okay with it as long as I didn't get drunk, which I would never do while carrying my gun. I will have a drink or two, but if it's going to be more than that I will leave it at home. As far as the actual interpretation of the law goes I have no idea.
And FYI, there are not a lot of actual bars/taverns in Savannah. If they can serve alcohol on sunday, its a restaurant, even by the old 50% rule.
I would want to speak to the bar owner or manager (or the "on duty manager" for that time when you stop by) and that manager gives you permission to carry.
Seeing other people open carry would NOT be enough. They could be cops, judges, court clerks, military, etc. (see 16-11-130).
Has anybody else ASKED for permission to carry? What were the results?
By the way, I suppose a posted sign that said something like "Armed Civilians with Permits are Welcome Here" would also be a grant of permission you could rely on (unless and until you get contradictory information from a manager). But I really doubt any of us will see such a sign.
Unless there is a bar owner out there who is a GCO member!
Seeing other people open carry would NOT be enough. They could be cops, judges, court clerks, military, etc. (see 16-11-130).
Has anybody else ASKED for permission to carry? What were the results?
By the way, I suppose a posted sign that said something like "Armed Civilians with Permits are Welcome Here" would also be a grant of permission you could rely on (unless and until you get contradictory information from a manager). But I really doubt any of us will see such a sign.
Unless there is a bar owner out there who is a GCO member!
In practical terms if the place doesn't have a sign, you have a GWL, you stay concealed, don't get smashed (especially if you aren't drinking at all), and leave a.s.a.p. if asked to leave I don't think you are going to have a problem.
Pretty much this... just way too much common sense in this thread.GAGunOwner said:In practical terms if the place doesn't have a sign, you have a GWL, you stay concealed, don't get smashed (especially if you aren't drinking at all), and leave a.s.a.p. if asked to leave I don't think you are going to have a problem.
I can't believe I'm going to say this, but removal of the 50% seems to have made this law vague. How are we supposed to decide if the serving of food/etc is incidental to the consumption of alcohol?
It seems like you could interpret any given location either way depending on your view or maybe I'm missing something here? Are they referring to places that just barely serve food (e.g. dance clubs that have finger food)? Or could a tavern that serves full dinner courses still be considered a bar? Would it be considered a bar if most of the patrons are drinking, but they still serve full meals?
I'm hoping for some clarification here, this part of the changes last summer left me scratching my head a bit.
It seems like you could interpret any given location either way depending on your view or maybe I'm missing something here? Are they referring to places that just barely serve food (e.g. dance clubs that have finger food)? Or could a tavern that serves full dinner courses still be considered a bar? Would it be considered a bar if most of the patrons are drinking, but they still serve full meals?
I'm hoping for some clarification here, this part of the changes last summer left me scratching my head a bit.
I emailed a pub, told them my issue and asked for permission. They emailed me back that it would be OK.
If in doubt, you can always go to the GA Dept of Revenue's website and see if they are licensed as a bar, tavern, restaurant, etc.LordSephiroth said:I can't believe I'm going to say this, but removal of the 50% seems to have made this law vague. How are we supposed to decide if the serving of food/etc is incidental to the consumption of alcohol?
It seems like you could interpret any given location either way depending on your view or maybe I'm missing something here? Are they referring to places that just barely serve food (e.g. dance clubs that have finger food)? Or could a tavern that serves full dinner courses still be considered a bar? Would it be considered a bar if most of the patrons are drinking, but they still serve full meals?
I'm hoping for some clarification here, this part of the changes last summer left me scratching my head a bit.
Linky:Adam5 said:If in doubt, you can always go to the GA Dept of Revenue's website and see if they are licensed as a bar, tavern, restaurant, etc.
https://etax.dor.ga.gov/AlcoholRetailer/
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