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Tactical Statistician
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I apologize in advance if you feel this is a :deadhorserepost: . However, we have recently discussed choosing a HD shotgun in another thread but what I really wanted to ask is this -

What are the advantages vs disadvantages of an autoloader for HD?

vs. a pump?

I have been looking really hard at the Mossberg 930 Tactical model but think I might go instead with the SPX model (click the forward arrow for more models). It has different sights and an increased 7+1 capacity. The price difference is only about $50. My end goal for a HD shotgun would be to have a light mounted and some type of sling. The SPX has a picatinny rail. Would a light be better mounted there or with some type of adapter on the magazine extender? I have seen some discussion on other forums with folks having trouble getting a sling mounted for this shottie.

Please provide input. I am not necessarily opposed to a pump but why bother with the extra step/action if the auto loaders are as reliable?
 

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I have trusted my life to an automatic shotgun, bringing it along when I expected that the odds of close range interpersonal conflict of an aggressive nature was a distinct possibility.

I have done the same with a pump.

I liked the auto better.
 

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Some autoloaders do not cycle properly when fired from the hip.(as one may be forced to do in a home defense situation) Primarily the ones that are recoil operated have this problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
USMC - Retired said:
Some autoloaders do not cycle properly when fired from the hip.(as one may be forced to do in a home defense situation) Primarily the ones that are recoil operated have this problem.
I do not know anything about shotguns but do know the Mossberg is gas operated. Is this what you are referring to? Have you heard anything good/bad about Mossberg autoloaders?
 

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You can get off some quick shots with a pump if you practice. If you pull the trigger and nothing happens, you simply pump again and shoot. I don't think it would be that easy with an auto, would it?

Besides, the pumping action will generate a huge amount of dread in your attacker, and that's the emotion he will take to hell when you shoot him. I like that aspect. :wink:
 

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There is nothing quite so attention grabbing than that distinct sound of a shotgun shell being racked into the chamber. If that doesn't stop the perp, chances are the slug will.

You could walk into a loud crowded room, rack a shotgun, and hear a pin drop heartbeats later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
slabertooch said:
There is nothing quite so attention grabbing than that distinct sound of a shotgun shell being racked into the chamber. If that doesn't stop the perp, chances are the slug will.

You could walk into a loud crowded room, rack a shotgun, and hear a pin drop heartbeats later.
All true, however, I doubt sound would come into play in a real life situation. If I "hear something" and initiate the house clearing drill I will already have a round chambered. The perp would likely never hear the action. If the threat was close enough to hear the sound then I would likely have grabbed a pistol instead as I keep them closer and already "hot". Also, at that time we would be in close enough quarters I would feel more comfortable with a pistol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Does it sound reasonable that one could train themselves to fire a 12 ga. with one hand? I am imagining a scenario where I would need one hand free (scooping a child, working a door, dialing a phone, etc.). I know this would not be optimal, but is it feasible?

This would be one advantage of an autoloader over a pump. I have never tried this so I apologize if this is a stupid question.
 

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VOLGRAD said:
Does it sound reasonable that one could train themselves to fire a 12 ga. with one hand? I am imagining a scenario where I would need one hand free (scooping a child, working a door, dialing a phone, etc.). I know this would not be optimal, but is it feasible?

This would be one advantage of an autoloader over a pump. I have never tried this so I apologize if this is a stupid question.
Sure, especially if it has a pistol grip, in addition to the shoulder stock. You could shoot my Hk shotgun that way. It is not ideal.
 

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Auto better IF

IF the auto is truly as reliable as the pump, or really close to it.

IF the auto doesn't cost 3X as much.

IF the auto isn't much heavier and wider. I like a short, slim shotgun for clearing a house or for use in / around vehicles.

IF the auto is also reliable with a wide variety of ammo-- from cheap birdshot to buckshot to slugs. It should handle 3" magnums just as easily as standard 2.75" chamber shells.

I don't think I'll have any trouble forgetting to pump my shotgun, but I've fired probably 10,000 rounds through it and others just like it (all Mossberg 500-series pumps). And my paintball gun is a pump action. If you don't practice with it regularly, then I'd go with the auto, since you COULD forget to pump it in a crisis.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
As far as reliability, I don't really know. Since I can't test them all I only have anecdotal evidence/third party opinions to base a decision on.

As far as price, the Mossberg 930 Tactical and/or SPX will be just under $500. Pretty good price for an autoloader IMO.

If I could afford it, I would probably choose a Benelli M4 but too much $$$ for me.

I really wanted to keep my purchase under $500 or as close as possible. In this price range I probably won't find any other options to the Mossie 930 for an autoloader. That would put me back in the PUMP category.

For pumps I would likely look at the 870 series, the Benelli Nova or SuperNovas, and the Mossie 500 or 590s. I know the 870s and 500/590s have a great track record, don't know much about the Benellis. I have heard good and not so good.

I am just torn. I really would prefer the autoloader but not sure if it would be as reliable as a tried and true pump.

Good news is I don't have to decide right away. I still have to sell my Beretta PX4.
 

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USMC - Retired said:
Bennelli Novas are good reliable guns, can run ANY sized shell with no problems and come with sling swivel mounts. By the way, I happen to know where you can pick up a new Nova in cammo for less than retail...

http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... php?t=4965
I saw that post, but I just don't trust the seller. It seems a bit shady to win a prize in a raffle you organized.
 

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budder said:
USMC - Retired said:
Bennelli Novas are good reliable guns, can run ANY sized shell with no problems and come with sling swivel mounts. By the way, I happen to know where you can pick up a new Nova in cammo for less than retail...

http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... php?t=4965
I saw that post, but I just don't trust the seller. It seems a bit shady to win a prize in a raffle you organized.
If I could figure out how to make the Georgia Cash 3 number come up just as I want the last thing I would do is use that info to "win" a $455 shotgun.

I say "win" because if you knew how many tickets I bought myself you'ld realize that I actually lost money on the deal... :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
USMC - I recall seeing yours listed. I really like the look but don't think I want a 26" barrel. I have been offered a couple of Benellis in trade for my Beretta and might give them another look. I think Clyde has some I can go and fondle before making a decision.
 

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The pump is extremely reliable that's true. There was a time years ago when auto shotguns just weren't trusted but those days are gone. We trust our lives to auto handguns instead of revolvers and that's about the same difference between an auto shotgun and a pump. It's true that some of the older autos had problems cycling low brass rounds or low powder shells and some even had ring adjustments on the tubes to account for those differences.

These are not things to even consider any more these days. Your home defense shottie is not gonna be thrown in piles of dirt or mud every day nor will it be lying around in the sand at the beach. It'll be hanging around proudly by your bedside just chomping at the bit to be put to use.....which it hopefully will never be. Buy that Mossie auto SPX and then find the defense round you're gonna use and shoot a couple hundred through it. You won't have a single failure. It would take you months and big money to find the isolated load that might have a problem and that would not be the defensive type rounds you're apt to want anyway.
 

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A pump is more reliable. Agreed, I carry a semi-auto pistol, but that does not make a semi-auto shotgun more reliable than a pump.

By the time I cycle my pump shotgun, I am back on target. With an auto, I would still have to pull the sights back on target. For me, an auto shotgun is just not worth the expense and reduced reliability.
 

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1911packer said:
A pump is more reliable. Agreed, I carry a semi-auto pistol, but that does not make a semi-auto shotgun more reliable than a pump.

By the time I cycle my pump shotgun, I am back on target. With an auto, I would still have to pull the sights back on target. For me, an auto shotgun is just not worth the expense and reduced reliability.
1911, I never said it was "more reliable" than a pump. While it's true with practice a pump can be mighty fast, I don't quite get your statement about "by the time I cycle my pump, I'm back on target". That's might well be true, but you still have to pull your sights back on target with a pump too. That just doesn't make good sense to me. Both have similar recoil (actually, most autos have less) and both require reacquiring your target. Are you saying that all that action of pulling the trigger, reacting to recoil and chambering another round with the pump allows you to reacquire your target faster than an auto? I don't have much practice with a home defense shotgun, but I've owned pumps for decades, several autos since 1970 and now side by sides. I bird hunt religiously and while I now enjoy double barrels more, NOTHING was faster than my autos. My original Browning Auto 12 has NEVER failed to fire and nor have my Remingtons.
 

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Let me add to the above that NOTHING is more reliable than a bolt action rifle or a single action revolver.....but that doesn't mean that pump rifles or auto handguns aren't reliable. After all, if we were only trusting our life to the MOST reliable weapons, nobody would ever own a 1911, a Sig, an HK or a Glock.
 
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