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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
January 19th, 2011
Today, the ATF announced at the 2011 SHOT Show that a new ruling would be issued on Monday, January 24, 2011, regarding the importability of certain shotguns. ATF informed the audience at the ATF Townhall meeting that they wanted to ensure that they were properly and justly enforcing the requirements of a shotgun being for a “sporting purpose.â€
http://blog.princelaw.com/2011/1/20/atf ... mportation
 

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Just saw this link on another website.
 

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I have a feeling Saiga owners will be disappointed..
 

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A couple of the new Taurus guns introduced at the Shot Show have been pulled. Don't remember the names one was a 28 gauge....
 

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madcapmagician said:
I have a feeling Saiga owners will be disappointed..
i will get one while i can..... :lol: :love:
 

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If you click on the ATF Firearms link on the page, there is an update today on the situation. It sounds more like something that is imported in a certain configuration will be subject to the ruling than what is done after it is in the country.

I still don't like the ATF interpretations on things without any law to support it. It's a slow choke hold on the firearms business that people forget about each time something like this happens.
 

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Imported with the ability to accept detachable magazines and with a buttstock that's not an integral part of the receiver, maybe? :screwy:
If you read something "creatively" enough, you can justify almost anything. I suspect that in 1934 the phrase "destructive device" was meant to Exempt shotguns and shotshells because they were particularly suitable for sporting purposes (as at No time has a military ever been equipped for combat with shotguns.)
And by equipped I means as Standard issue, not specialized equipment like sniper rifles, M3 carbines, or flame throwers.
 

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If BATF ruled that a combat shotgun, with a bore over 1/2 inch (that's both 12 and 20 gauge, right?) was a destructive device rather than a sporting shotgun, would they be totally wrong?
Look at the definition of "destructive device" under federal law. I think 1968 was the year Congress amended the NFA to include those kind of weapons.

If you have a semi-auto firearm and it uses high capacity magazines (twice the ammo capacity of a typical sporting shotgun) and had other tactical features that were of little or no interest to hunters or clay target shooters, and if the bore diameter is well over .50 caliber...
... would BATF be correctly or incorrectly call it a destructive device?

(P.S. If you tell me that there are shooting games and competitions for "combat" or "tactical" shotguns, I'll reply that there always will be competitions for ANY weapon. Field artillery cannon. Machineguns. If hand grenades were legal and didn't cost so much for civilians (maybe $100 per grendade, plus $200 each for the transfer tax) there would be grenade-tossing competitions too! Just because somebody somewhere invented a game to pay with a weapon doesn't make it a sporting weapon. That was clearly not the intent of Congress.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I don't think Congress ever intended any shotgun to be considered a DD.
 

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gunsmoker said:
If BATF ruled that a combat shotgun, with a bore over 1/2 inch (that's both 12 and 20 gauge, right?) was a destructive device rather than a sporting shotgun, would they be totally wrong?
That'd be down to C or 40 gauge. A 36 gauge would be just over the line.

I see a bucket of rules coming out of the ATF followed by a modernize the ATF movement to get NFA transfers handled in say a week. Something where FFLs could electronically submit forms, and trusts or fingerprints. I also figure at some point the '86 ban will be undone whether through the courts or legislative action. It is a DD now? So what, pay $200 and come back in a week...

While I'm on my NFA wishlist, I'd love to have an also-authorized category on record for NFA devices. What if my wife and I have matching 9mm cans and I happen to take the wrong one to the range that day? If I do that with a pistol, I just wind up cleaning her's when I'm done with it. What is the difference?

NOTE: I'd rather not have NFA at all, but I'm not hopeful it will go away in my lifetime.
 

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If you want to have multiple people authorized to use your NFA weapon or silencer, I think you can do that through a trust.
 

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madcapmagician said:
I have a feeling Saiga owners will be disappointed..
You mean peope who aren't saiga owners. Those of us with one will be happy at the increase in value of our toys. :lol: ... :sly: .... :evil:
 

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madcapmagician said:
If you click on the ATF Firearms link on the page, there is an update today on the situation. It sounds more like something that is imported in a certain configuration will be subject to the ruling than what is done after it is in the country.

I still don't like the ATF interpretations on things without any law to support it. It's a slow choke hold on the firearms business that people forget about each time something like this happens.
This. :righton:
 

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I didn't buy mine in the last 48 hours, but I wish I would have bought more MD arms drum mags back in december when they were cheap. :(

They just raised their price back up to $120.

Also in the news the promised BATFE Study RE: shotguns

LINK
 

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kwikrnu said:
I didn't buy mine in the last 48 hours, but I wish I would have bought more MD arms drum mags back in december when they were cheap. :(

They just raised their price back up to $120.

Also in the news the promised BATFE Study RE: shotguns

LINK
And if I had a dime for every time the word "sporting" showed up in that document, I'd probably have just paid for a tax stamp...
:puke:
 

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I checked MD arms on the price for drum magazines this afternoon. They were priced at $120 and there were 400 something in stock. I just checked and they are out of stock...

Link.

8)
 

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GAGunOwner said:
I don't think Congress ever intended any shotgun to be considered a DD.
Sure they did. Its a reasonable restriction on our right to keep and bear arms.
 

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http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/012611-study-on-importality-of-certain-shotguns.pdf

They are presently having a "public comment period." Please politely let the ATF know two things: 1.) The Second Amendment has nothing to do with "sporting" guns or hunting ducks. Rather, it preserves our right to own paramilitary ("militia") firearms. and 2.) Detachable magazine shotguns such as the Saiga 12 gauge are indeed popular for sporting shotgun "Three Gun Match" events.
-- http://www.survivalblog.com/index.html
 

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I have read this report and commented to the ATF. One item to note, spring conservation orders for goose hunting allow for no shell limits on guns. I, for one, mentioned this to the ATF in regard to their magazine capacity restrictions for importation. Perhaps you may want to do the same.
 
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