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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
ATF is back with their attack against pistol/stabilizing braces. The proposed rule includes a worksheet that scores various attributes of the weapon being factored. Basically, any "pistol" that gets a score of 4 or more is deemed a "rifle" and more specifically a "short barreled rifle" requiring NFA registration. The intent is quite obvious - remove the SBR workaround provided by those pistol braces. The worksheet itself is something to behold.

The proposed rule has not yet been published in the Federal Register allowing for comments. I'll update this post when it does.

What is Proposed in this Rulemaking?
The proposed rule would:
  • Amend the definition of “rifle” in 27 CFR 478.11 and 479.11, respectively, by adding a sentence at the end of each definition to clarify that the term “rifle” includes any weapon with a rifled barrel and equipped with an attached “stabilizing brace” that has objective design features and characteristics that indicate that the firearm is designed to be fired from the shoulder.

  • Set forth a worksheet “Factoring Criteria for Rifled Barrel Weapons with Accessories commonly referred to as ‘Stabilizing Braces,’” ATF Worksheet 4999, to aid the firearms industry and public in understanding the criteria that ATF considers when evaluating firearm samples that are submitted with an attached “stabilizing brace” or similar component or accessory.
This proposed rule would not affect “stabilizing braces” that are objectively designed and intended as a “stabilizing brace” for use by individuals with disabilities, and not for shouldering the weapon as a rifle. Such stabilizing braces are designed to conform to the arm and not as a buttstock.

Link to proposed rule.
deleted since it is now published at the Federal Register (see below)

Link to Federal Register where you can submit comments in a constructive manner on or before September 08, 2021.
 

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Sounds like "we know it when we see it" with lots of use of the words "objective" and "objectively" to pretend that it is not subjective.
 

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Note the systemic racism inherent in the justification.
The statutory definitions of “firearm” under the GCA and the NFA are different.3 In 1934, Congress passed the NFA in order to regulate certain “gangster” type weapons.4 These weapons were viewed as especially dangerous and unusual, and, as a result, are subject to taxes and are required to be registered with ATF.5
Link to the proposed worksheet:
 

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Read page 2 on that worksheet.
More than 7.5 lbs with empty mag? SBR
Any scope/sight deemed to not have sufficient eye relief? SBR
Missing strap on the cuff? SBR
Any secondary grip (read: foregrip)? SBR
 

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Where does this model fit in. Was one of the early ones that came with the ATF letter.

18844-DEFAULT-l.jpg



Firearm Specifications

  • Item Number: PM400-11B-EC-FDE-PSB
  • Caliber: 5.56mm NATO
  • Action Type: Semi-auto
  • Weight w/out Mag: 6 lbs
  • Overall Length: 28”
  • Barrel Length: 11.5”
  • Rifling: 1 in 7”
  • Mag Capacity: 10 Rounds
  • CA/MA Compliant: No
  • Features:
    • Direct Impingement Gas Operating System with Rotating Locking Bolt
    • “F” Marked Front/Locking Flip-Up Rear Sight
    • Integral Ambi QD Sling Mounts
    • FDE Magpul MOE Grip
    • Enhanced Forend and FDE SB15 Brace
 

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I have a question regarding "who" is to make the determination of whether a brace applies or not. Will it be the brace manufacturer, firearm manufacturer or the brace owner. I have a pistol in which i brought a brace after I bought the gun. who is responsible for making that determination?
 

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A while back, I was seriously considering getting an AR pistol. I do my very best to never leave a gun in a vehicle, but if the need ever arose, I thought an AR pistol (with or without a brace) would be about the coolest "truck gun" ever.

Then the bumpstock clusterfu_ _ started emerging, I saw the writing on the wall, and then changed my mind about getting one. I figured that this crap would happen, and didn't want to have to worry about dumping one, becoming a felon, or whatever else might transpire (or need to). I did not want to have to figure out things later, need a lawyer to explain it to me, or have to alter my gun to make it become legal again (while losing money).

Work-arounds often work themselves around to bite you in the ass.
 

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Read page 2 on that worksheet.
More than 7.5 lbs with empty mag? SBR
Any scope/sight deemed to not have sufficient eye relief? SBR
Missing strap on the cuff? SBR
Any secondary grip (read: foregrip)? SBR
Wow. :oops: Not too difficult to see where this is headed. :sneaky:


This is kind of the equivalent of determining that a semi automatic is a full auto just based on a a certain rate of fire.

That worksheet indicates that there is no way to know when you buy the brace. You have to take a bunch of things into consideration, and no one factor alone is determinative.

But you can bet they will be prosecuting any chance they get.

It used to be really easy to comply with the law. A certain barrel length, a full auto sear or not . . . but now we need to consult a checklist before knowing if we are committing a federal felony worthy of 10 years in prison? I mean, this is not a civil violation with a $75 fine. This is a very serious crime. Shouldn't the violation of the law be plain and obvious to those trying to comply with the law?
 

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What is the LOP?
Is that rear sight fixed or flip-up?
Does the brace/buffer tube telescope?
Any spacers?
LOP= I have no clue in hell.
Does the brace/buffer tube telescope?= No
Is that rear sight fixed or flip-up?= Yes but has A2 handle fixed now.
Any spacers?= No
I can't find this thing on the Sig sight. to get all the specs. It's almost like they are hiding it. I can usually find stuff.
 

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Almost nothing is going to get around this checklist. Review it for yourselves.

I would not expect many so-called arm braces to pass this test when fitted on most AR "pistols" -- because The gun brace and optics and furniture options on such weapons systems clearly show that they are intended to create a short-barreled rifle that the federal government has previously ignored and not considered to be a short-barreled rifle.

Real one-hand-only AR's whose arm braces are actually used to wrap around the dominant hand's forearm are either (1) as rare as hens teeth or
(2) like unicorns that fly and fart out rainbows in the sky: a complete work of fiction & fantasy.
 

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LOP= I have no clue in hell.
Does the brace/buffer tube telescope?= No
Is that rear sight fixed or flip-up?= Yes but has A2 handle fixed now.
Any spacers?= No
I can't find this thing on the Sig sight. to get all the specs. It's almost like they are hiding it. I can usually find stuff.
If the LOP is under 10.5” you are probably okay. Each extra inch adds a point ( the ATF just wanted to be in the “that’s what she said” game).
If that nub on the front of the front hand guard is magically classified as a “hand stop”, add 2 points.
If you put the flip-up sight back on it (or omit the sight entirely), add 1 point.

Once you get to 4 points total, you show your tax stamp of go to jail.

There are extra modifiers on page one to imperil your bigger range buddies too. If you already had 2 points on page one and your buddy’s forearm won’t fit in the cuff proper, it’s a pistol while you shoot it and suddenly picks up 2 points when he shoots it because it won’t wrap around his arm. Literally for this forum: “This is a 150 lb 45_Fan holding a pistol with a telescoping cuff brace” <passes pistol to the guy on his left> “This is MP holding the same but now it’s an unregistered SBR”.
 

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Well the one I posted about will not pass.

The weapon must have an overall length between 12 and 26 inches.

28 inches from tip of barrel to end of brace. Paperwork and $200.00 or sell it. Got plenty without it.
gunsmoker and MP are correct on this one. Thanks 45_Fan for your help. LOP was less than 10.5
 

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I haven't read their bs and don't really care. Unless this new definition they came up with changes it, overall length doesn't include the flash suppressor. It also doesn't include the brace under the current rules. Currently both the muzzle device and brace are accessories and not included in the oal.

45_fan mentioned a telescopic brace, as far as I know that's a no-no.
 

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LOP= I have no clue in hell.
Does the brace/buffer tube telescope?= No
Is that rear sight fixed or flip-up?= Yes but has A2 handle fixed now.
Any spacers?= No
I can't find this thing on the Sig sight. to get all the specs. It's almost like they are hiding it. I can usually find stuff.
LOP = Length of Pull
LOS = Line of Sight
LOB = Line of Bore
Currently if your LOP is less than 13'' measured from the trigger to the maximum extension of the brace.
Basic of long range shooting.
 

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I haven't read their bs and don't really care. Unless this new definition they came up with changes it, overall length doesn't include the flash suppressor. It also doesn't include the brace under the current rules. Currently both the muzzle device and brace are accessories and not included in the oal.

45_fan mentioned a telescopic brace, as far as I know that's a no-no.
In that case I may be OK as it would put me under 26. Brace does not telescope. I'm sure they'll change the rule on any that pass the test. Another fun event with the atf.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ammoland News has an article on this proposed rule in which they state that those popular Mossberg Shockwave and Remington TAC-14 not-a-shotgun "firearms" fall under the proposed rules and will be deemed short barreled shotguns.

The ATF firearms like the Mossberg Shockwave and the TAC-14 will be considered Short-Barreled Shotguns (SBS). There is no way to get any “shotgun-based” guns that could make it through the new regulations.
After reading the proposed new rules that article is wrong. The following statement is found on page 11.
These criteria and worksheet do not apply to firearms with a smooth bore that use shotgun ammunition. These types of firearms, commonly referred to as “pistol grip shotguns,” were never designed to be fired from one hand (e.g., Mossberg Shockwave, Remington Tac-14). ATF has always classified these weapons as GCA “firearms,” not shotguns or pistols, as they do not incorporate a stock, like a shotgun, and are not designed to be fired from one hand, like a pistol. Thus, the addition of a “stabilizing brace” does not assist with single-handed firing, but rather redesigns the firearm to provide surface area for firing from the shoulder.
None of the Mossberg Shockwave models come from the factory with a brace. Only one model of the Remington TAC-14 comes from the factory with a brace (and a pistol grip). Should this proposed rule eventually pass, my feeling is that Remington will just stop offering it. It appears that owners of unbraced Shockwaves and TAC-14s have no problems currently. I have no idea how or if ATF will address those customers who have modified their not-a-shotguns by adding braces after buying them.
 

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I guess it would be too damn easy to come out with a list of weapons that if not modified after leaving the factory either pass of fail. Then all others are graded with that wonderful form they have.
 
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