Armed good guy takes out a church killer

Discussion in 'In the News' started by DonT, Dec 29, 2019.

  1. DonT

    DonT Deplorable bitter clinger.

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    Another church shooting in Texas on Dec. 29th, 2019, reports are two dead including the killer, and two in critical condition. Bad guy pulled out a shotgun during the service and began shooting. Good guy took him out with a handgun almost immediately, with a shot at 10 yards it appears. Several other armed parishioners can be seen in the video. The armed citizen, some early reports say, is ex FBI and a member of the church security team.

    https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com...rch-armed-member-of-parish-takes-out-shooter/

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-church-shooting-texas-injured-active

    The church was live streaming the service. Here is the incident from that video:

    https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=a7Egb_1577654583
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  2. StarJack

    StarJack Well Aged Member

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    But! But! Nobody needs a gun in church!!

    God bless and protect the citizen who saved the day.
     
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  3. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    This will be spun as only a professional, government trained citizen can take out a bad guy.
     
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  4. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    Interesting and hopefully accurate reporting by CNN.

    Nemo

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/29/us/church-shooting-texas/index.html

     
  5. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    Fox News also has it, but a bit more detail.

    Summary of reports I have read indicate bad guy came in with concealed shotgun and took out communion plate passer first. Good guy 1 was drawing and bad guy got him while good guy 2 drew and took out bad guy.

    Nemo

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-church-shooting-texas-injured-active

     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  6. hammerg26

    hammerg26 Member

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  7. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I have tried to tell persons asking for a church that permits carry to visit their local church of Christ. This was the West Freeway Church of Christ, and you can see at least five persons with pistols converging on the shooter.

    I haven't seen a church of Christ yet that bans carry, which does not mean that it does not exist. It will also typically be a church not infected by protestant or catholic dogma, as every other suggestion on this web site is.
     
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  8. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    That's already started. I read a report saying he is a "security guard."

    If anybody asked our church, they would be told that there is a security team, but the reality is the same as this church in the news story (more than likely), an entirely volunteer group of worshippers with plans to handle various catastrophes and emergencies.


    This little congregation in Texas did not hire any licensed, armed security guards.
     
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  9. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Why so much delay in releasing the name of the criminal?
     
  10. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    Delay suggests it was not your basic white guy.

    OWM your link has the critical space blurred out. Check the live leak one posted above.

    Nemo
     
  11. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    Just watched it. That went down fast. Had the church member not been fast as well, more lives would have been lost.

    The defender did a great job!
     
  12. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    Note first guy shot was trying to draw. Pay attention to your carry method, position and access. Do lots of practice at home.

    Go to a range and do some live fire practice too, including from concealed carry.

    Nemo
     
  13. DonT

    DonT Deplorable bitter clinger.

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    It was not all wonderful, I agree. Good guy one had a slow draw, cost him his life, I think there was a moment of "I can't believe this is happening" going on. Good guy two had about a five second draw, same thing, too slow, but he got a good shot off, perhaps a head shot, at about 12 yards it looked like. Five or six other armed citizens converged afterward, with at least a couple of them muzzling the congregation.
     
  14. OWM

    OWM Well-Known Member

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    With your Sunday best on as well. Coat makes a difference.
     
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  15. latter_day_hippie

    latter_day_hippie Well-Known Member

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    According to several media reports I have seen, the entire incident lasted six seconds from the time the bad guy pulled out his weapon to the time he was put down. I watched several versions of the video and that six-second timeframe appears accurate. In those six seconds the bad guy killed two people before he was put down.

    How many would the bad guy have killed if there hadn't been armed parishioners in the pews and:

    1. the church had a paid armed guard or police officer outside or just inside the front doors of the church? From the time of the first shot to the time the guard or officer could get into position to engage the bad guy might have been... 15 seconds? 30 seconds? That easily could have been a magazine dump and 10 or more people killed. Maybe even a few more if the bad guy's weapon had a removable magazine and he could do a quick reload.

    2. the church had no armed security and the first armed response was from officers responding to a "shots fired" call? Even if officers were there and inside within three minutes of the first shot being fired and assuming a bunch of people didn't swarm the shooter, there may have been dozens killed even with a leisurely pace of reloading.

    I don't go to houses of worship any more because all but a few have bought into the idea that a few armed security guards in the parking lot or outside the main doors are enough to prevent this kind of thing happening. Others have no choice - they are too small to afford armed security at all and don't have the option of hand-picking people who they want to carry to provide some measure of protection.

    This latest shooting in Texas illustrates why the law in Georgia must change. Houses of worship should have the ability to decide as private property owners whether *and who* may carry, not the "nobody by default or everybody" option they have today. Those who carry against a house of worship's wishes should be asked to leave and be trespassed if they fail to comply.
     
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  16. opencarry

    opencarry Fire Scout Pilot, NCFS

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    Okay, I will play the Liberal Socialist!!!

    If the first guy killed had not gone for his gun, the bad guy would never have shot anyone but simply just robbed the Offering Plate and left!

    My heart is sad for what appears to be the daughter of the first slain man yelling for her daddy. :-(

    This could have ended worse, love the four or five carries that ran to the fight rather than running away like we just saw in Jersey? last week.
     
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  17. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    If you can't get your gun out into a fight in under two seconds, you're carrying the wrong way.
     
  18. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Maybe the security team guy / armed parishioner #1 should have drawn his gun discreetly while seated, and then popped up to open fire with it.

    He made himself a target when he was still at least two seconds away from being able to deploy his weapon and bring it to bear on the bad guy.

    Although perhaps that was intentional. What if he made the bad guy turn his attention toward him rather than other innocent people?

    That volunteer may have put himself in danger knowing that he wasn't yet ready to fire back --just to keep that shotgun pointed away from others.
     
    OWM likes this.
  19. OWM

    OWM Well-Known Member

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    In these comments we should remember the Good Guy with a gun that was killed could have been any one of us.
     
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  20. phantoms

    phantoms Senior Mumbler

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    https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/30/us/texas-church-shooting-monday/index.html