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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My girlfriend works for AT&T, and her office on located on Peachtree Street, between 4th St and 5th St. She recently moved to that location from Glenn Ridge Dr, and she has had me come to work with her for the past two weeks. Yesterday, I was actually looking around and notice some type of student-based building across from the parking deck, on West Peachtree St and 5th St. I guess it is some sort of student center, as I saw a lot of people inside sitting around, reading and whatnot.

Tomorrow, I will be hitting up the Starbucks and Barnes & Noble @ Georgia Tech, along with some of the restaurants in that area; I am wondering if any of the locations around that building, or general area, would be off-limits to someone with a GWCL. I know I cannot enter a dorm(and I do not plan on it, obviously), nor any other Georgia Tech-owned school buildings, but what about that general area?

I will probably be casually CC-ing, or OC-ing(depending on what I am going to be wearing). After some guy litterally ran away from me Tuesday, while I was OC(I never said anything to the guy, he just passed me, saw my firearm, and ran...fast :screwy: ) I given serious thought to not OC-ing.

I am certainly not interested in being the cause of any problems. I just started thinking about that area and what buildings might or might not be off-limits.
 
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As the tech campus now has facilities on that side of the connector, I would think it wise to find a detailed campus map as they may have property over there now. Those areas would be off limits to GWL holders unless meeting the narrowly defined exemptions in -127.1, which do not include pedestrian type traffic. Thus, except perhaps for being on the public streets, you could be in violation if you were to wander onto an area defined as part of the campus.
 

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I CC there quite often. I have never knowingly entered school property, but if I do accidentally wander onto it I'd rather my carry never come up.

It's a risk/benefit analysis. What are the odds that 1) you are caught by an anti while CC (almost never happens if you really CC, even lazy CC is almost never noticed), AND 2) wander onto GT property (unlikely to happen if you're paying attention and stay in obviously public streets or commercial areas), AND 3) a anti-carry LEO stops you while you are on GT property, AND 4) knows or assumes that that the sidewalk between Starbucks and the street is school property? All 4 would have to happen before legal trouble started. Now, compare that to the risk of getting mugged, assaulted, or worse while in the surrounding Georgia Tech area. It's not even close.

Carry, and carry concealed.

Disclaimer: This post is not meant to show any preference for OC or CC in any other situation. Void where prohibited. Cash value 1/20 of 1c.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I am not going to be entering any of the school buildings; I will just be entering the business around that area. My understanding is that, with SB 308, I am not allowed to enter school grounds(or, at the very least, the buildings that Georgia Tech owns?), but the businesses around here are ok. I could be wrong, which is why I asked.

My girlfriend wants us to go to the Barnes & Noble and the Starbucks that are juxtaposed to the campus buildings. To be honest, this whole area is just about :censored: confusing. There just needs to be some neon-colored lines drawn around the special, holy places that we, as GWCL holders, cannot go. That, or just put electronic dog collar-type devices on us that will vibrate or shock us as we start getting within a few feet of the places we cannot go while carrying.

I guess I will just avoid those businesses for now, as I am not going to possibly violate the law and give law enforcement, nor the public, a reason to crucify all GWCL holders. I will not go unarmed in this city, or really anywhere, in general. I will play it safe, until I know that I am not violating the law.

If I remember correctly, Georgia Tech was one of the schools that was very vocal about keeping up their unarmed, victimizing barrier. That and the armed robbery that occurred not that long ago did not dissuade those in charge at Georgia Tech from that stance.

EDIT

Yeah, here it is: http://www.ajc.com/news/gwinnett/armed- ... 85815.html It is :censored: like that that prompted me to put a firearm in my girlfriend's car.
 

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Come to think of it, I've actually open carried at the Starbucks and Barnes and Noble over there next to GT campus (near 5th and Spring). Passed an APD officer on my way into Starbucks, no one seemed to mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I just called the Georgia Tech Police Department and asked, to be safe. No officer was available, according to the lady I talked to, but someone was feeding her information(I could hear a voice in background). She stated that, in the private businesses, the weapon had to be carried in an open fashion. My response was, "Huh?"

She is going to have someone call me back to "better explain it to me". I will share what is stated to me, if and when I get a callback. I am guessing that that lady just misinterpreted the information.
 

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ookoshi said:
Come to think of it, I've actually open carried at the Starbucks and Barnes and Noble over there next to GT campus (near 5th and Spring). Passed an APD officer on my way into Starbucks, no one seemed to mind.
Be careful. Starbucks/B&N is actually the GT management building. There are 3 stories worth of classrooms and Georgia tech offices located in that building. I used to work there and have taken classes there -- the main hallway is one escalator ride away from starbucks. That is absolutely tech property.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
spector said:
ookoshi said:
Come to think of it, I've actually open carried at the Starbucks and Barnes and Noble over there next to GT campus (near 5th and Spring). Passed an APD officer on my way into Starbucks, no one seemed to mind.
Be careful. Starbucks/B&N is actually the GT management building. There are 3 stories worth of classrooms and Georgia tech offices located in that building. I used to work there and have taken classes there -- the main hallway is one escalator ride away from starbucks. That is absolutely tech property.
Whomever it was that was giving the lady on the phone I talked to stated I could carry in those businesses(I was surprised by that response), but had to do so in an open manner. Of course, she seemed a little confused by what was being told to her, so I am still waiting for a call back.

I would rather just carry concealed, but I am wearing the wrong clothes and it has gotten too warm(today, at least) for me to wear the coat I have with me. I have too much insulation to put on artificial insulation to conceal my firearm. I do not want to melt, or lump(depending on the situation) together. :lol:

It is almost time for me to walk over there with my girlfriend(lunch time). I am not interested in becoming a test case for the firearm laws in Georgia; I just want to make sure I am legally allowed to carry over to the private businesses located in Tech Square.

*EDIT*

Is your avatar a picture of someone punching a shark?
 

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ookoshi said:
I have never knowingly entered school property
montezuma said:
I am not going to be entering any of the school buildings
Careful here. For colleges, the law does not say school property or school buildings. The Georgia Tech campus includes some private property. I have yet to see an official map of the campus boundaries, but I bet they have expanded it over I-75 to the 5th street area since there are classrooms. It doesn't matter if it is private property, a private business renting space in a Tech building, or walking down the sidewalk. Within the campus boundaries you must leave it in the car unless you have a better exemption. I suspect walking into the Starbucks armed is a crime (or standing outside of it for that matter).

It would be nice to know the legal boundaries of the Tech campus. Without them, we're just guessing.
 
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I have a question: If it is a public street/road that runs through a campus, is that legal for carry within the confines of the right of way? For example walking along the sidewalk? Sidewalks are usually within the road right of way, which typically extends 10-12 feet beyond the edge of the pavement.

from -127.1: (1) "School safety zone" means in or on any real property owned by or leased to any public or private elementary school, secondary school, or school board and used for elementary or secondary education and in or on the campus of any public or private technical school, vocational school, college, university, or institution of postsecondary education.
 

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Montezuma said:
I just called the Georgia Tech Police Department and asked, to be safe.
Mistake number 1 was calling a police department for legal advice. Whatever they tell you will "never have happened" if the SHTF and will not keep you out of the lock-up. Trust me, for the most part they do not know the ins-and-out of the law, especially gun laws. Most likely, they will make something up on the spot (it might be close to being correct or it might not) that will most likely default to the least headache and libility for them.
 

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cpelliott said:
Careful here. For colleges, the law does not say school property or school buildings. The Georgia Tech campus includes some private property. I have yet to see an official map of the campus boundaries, but I bet they have expanded it over I-75 to the 5th street area since there are classrooms. It doesn't matter if it is private property, a private business renting space in a Tech building, or walking down the sidewalk. Within the campus boundaries you must leave it in the car unless you have a better exemption. I suspect walking into the Starbucks armed is a crime (or standing outside of it for that matter).

It would be nice to know the legal boundaries of the Tech campus. Without them, we're just guessing.
Tech campus may include private property, but it does not necessarily include parts of the building they are not renting. If they rent out the 2nd floor of a building, the 1st floor of a building is not real property that they own or lease. If I lease an apartment, that specific unit is real property I am leasing. I cannot claim that I am leasing the entire building.

Nowhere in the law does it state that real property is a vertical column of any property they lease as seen from above. Otherwise any plane flying over GT campus is a vehicle passing through a school zone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
GAGunOwner said:
Montezuma said:
I just called the Georgia Tech Police Department and asked, to be safe.
Mistake number 1 was calling a police department for legal advice. Whatever they tell you will "never have happened" if the SHTF and will not keep you out of the lock-up. Trust me, for the most part they do not know the ins-and-out of the law, especially gun laws. Most likely, they will make something up on the spot (it might be close to being correct or it might not) that will most likely default to the least headache and libility for them.
I know that it is not going to be something that I could fall back on in court if they were to arrest me, but it certainly does not hurt to ask for the department's stance on the issue. Also, it would be nice to know where the lines run around the Georgia Tech campus. This is almost as bad as it is/was when I was working in law enforcement.

Certain houses on some streets were city, and some were county. When a call would come into the 911 center, the dispatchers usually rolled the wrong department about 60% of the time. This patchwork of campus property is as ridiculous as the jurisdiction patchwork in that county is.

I am not interested in going into any of the school property; I just want to enter the eating establishments and bookstore in the Tech Square. If I cannot enter the square with a firearm, then I will avoid that area. There are other places to go, but the Tech Square is close enough that I can limp over there...eventually. :shattered:

I am going to look over my law books and do some research online and see if I can find a proper answer to this. If all else fails, I will do my best to divine the law to the best of my ability. :help:

*EDIT*

ookoshi said:
cpelliott said:
Careful here. For colleges, the law does not say school property or school buildings. The Georgia Tech campus includes some private property. I have yet to see an official map of the campus boundaries, but I bet they have expanded it over I-75 to the 5th street area since there are classrooms. It doesn't matter if it is private property, a private business renting space in a Tech building, or walking down the sidewalk. Within the campus boundaries you must leave it in the car unless you have a better exemption. I suspect walking into the Starbucks armed is a crime (or standing outside of it for that matter).

It would be nice to know the legal boundaries of the Tech campus. Without them, we're just guessing.
Tech campus may include private property, but it does not necessarily include parts of the building they are not renting. If they rent out the 2nd floor of a building, the 1st floor of a building is not real property that they own or lease. If I lease an apartment, that specific unit is real property I am leasing. I cannot claim that I am leasing the entire building.

Nowhere in the law does it state that real property is a vertical column of any property they lease as seen from above. Otherwise any plane flying over GT campus is a vehicle passing through a school zone.
The "Government Building" definition of 16-11-127 is what worries me. To me, it would seem that if any portion, or the entire portion, of a complete structure is used by a government agency(which Georgia Tech is an arm of the State of Georgia), then the whole structure if off-limits.

Now, I could be wrong, because I am not a lawyer. I am hoping that one of the board lawyers(hmm, saying that made me laugh) could give me a little insight to this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
i would think that the sidewalks in the Tech Square are legal carrying zones, as the sidewalk would be public property(with the right-of-way requirements and all), as well as the parking lot in and around the Tech Square. I am just not sure if the buildings would be open for carrying a firearm. If any of the floors above the private business houses school functions(classes, libraries, computer labs, etc), then it could mean that going into the private business below would be a no-no.

Of course, if, for reasons of code requirements, the private business portions are considered separate buildings, then I guess it could be legal. I just did not pay close enough attention when I was passing by the businesses to see what was on the upper floors.
 

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Montezuma said:
If any of the floors above the private business houses school functions(classes, libraries, computer labs, etc), then it could mean that going into the private business below would be a no-no.
On what code section would this prohibition stem from?

(1) "School safety zone" means in or on any real property owned by or leased to any public or private elementary school, secondary school, or school board and used for elementary or secondary education and in or on the campus of any public or private technical school, vocational school, college, university, or institution of postsecondary education.
Is the Starbucks real property owned by the school? Is it leased by the school?

(b) (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (c) of this Code section, it shall be unlawful for any person to carry to or to possess or have under such person's control while within a school safety zone or at a school building, school function, or school property
If you're resting this on the "school building" phrase, I doubt any building not actually owned by Georgia Tech would fall into this category.

The most straightforward reading of the law would include all real property owned by the school and all real property leased by the school. Real property can include buildings and/or parts of buildings. So the question is this:

1) Is the building that houses a Starbucks as well as some classrooms owned or leased by Georgia Tech? If not, it is not a school building.
2) Is the Starbucks owned or leased by Georgia Tech? If not, it is not real property owned or leased by a school.

A privately owned building which leases a single room to Georgia Tech does not turn the building into a school building.
 

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Montezuma said:
spector said:
ookoshi said:
Come to think of it, I've actually open carried at the Starbucks and Barnes and Noble over there next to GT campus (near 5th and Spring). Passed an APD officer on my way into Starbucks, no one seemed to mind.
Be careful. Starbucks/B&N is actually the GT management building. There are 3 stories worth of classrooms and Georgia tech offices located in that building. I used to work there and have taken classes there -- the main hallway is one escalator ride away from starbucks. That is absolutely tech property.
Whomever it was that was giving the lady on the phone I talked to stated I could carry in those businesses(I was surprised by that response), but had to do so in an open manner. Of course, she seemed a little confused by what was being told to her, so I am still waiting for a call back.

I would rather just carry concealed, but I am wearing the wrong clothes and it has gotten too warm(today, at least) for me to wear the coat I have with me. I have too much insulation to put on artificial insulation to conceal my firearm. I do not want to melt, or lump(depending on the situation) together. :lol:

It is almost time for me to walk over there with my girlfriend(lunch time). I am not interested in becoming a test case for the firearm laws in Georgia; I just want to make sure I am legally allowed to carry over to the private businesses located in Tech Square.

*EDIT*

Is your avatar a picture of someone punching a shark?
Most private business in tech square are probably ok. I was stating that, specifically, Barnes and noble and starbucks are INSIDE OF a tech classroom building. You can walk between b&n/starbucks and into a classroom without going outside. There is a hallway between the two that is open and elevators that take you up to other levels and professor's offices. I would maybe consider carrying at ribs n' blues, but I wouldn't even think about going inside of a classroom building carrying.

And, yes, my avatar is me punching a shark while diving the great barrier reef back in '07.
 

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spector said:
Most private business in tech square are probably ok. I was stating that, specifically, Barnes and noble and starbucks are INSIDE OF a tech classroom building. You can walk between b&n/starbucks and into a classroom without going outside. There is a hallway between the two that is open and elevators that take you up to other levels and professor's offices. I would maybe consider carrying at ribs n' blues, but I wouldn't even think about going inside of a classroom building carrying.
I would want to know who actually owns the building. The fact that there are classes in other parts of that building doesn't change anything. The fact that there is a hallway that connects the two instead of going outside doesn't change anything. A hallway can connect me and my neighbor's apartment. That doesn't mean I own or lease his apartment as part of my real property. It doesn't make it my building. Either GT owns the building or it doesn't. Either GT leases or owns the Starbucks/B&N retail space or it doesn't. There's no additional status of "We don't own or lease it but it's connected by a hallway."
 

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ookoshi said:
Tech campus may include private property, but it does not necessarily include parts of the building they are not renting. If they rent out the 2nd floor of a building, the 1st floor of a building is not real property that they own or lease. If I lease an apartment, that specific unit is real property I am leasing. I cannot claim that I am leasing the entire building.

Nowhere in the law does it state that real property is a vertical column of any property they lease as seen from above. Otherwise any plane flying over GT campus is a vehicle passing through a school zone.
Let's read the law.
16-11-127.1 said:
in or on the campus of any public or private technical school, vocational school, college, university, or institution of postsecondary education
16-11-127.1 said:
In a prosecution under this Code section, a map produced or reproduced by any municipal or county agency or department for the purpose of depicting the location and boundaries of the area ... of any campus of any public or private technical school, vocational school, college, university, or institution of postsecondary education
For K-12 it covers the property. For postsecondary, it covers the campus. It is illegal to carry on the campus unless you have an exemption like mil, LEO, or GWL and in the car. For regular people like me, it is illegal to possess a firearm anywhere within the bounds of a college campus unless the weapon stays in the car. The part you mention about parts of a building can apply to the "building that houses a govt entity." It is not mentioned in the school prohibition and does not apply there. The law seems very clear to me. If I have misinterpreted the law, I would like to see the relevant code.

My short summary of the law is that it is illegal to possess a firearm anywhere within the campus boundary (in car exception for GWL holders). Please tell me I'm wrong. Common sense might tell us the private businesses shouldn't be covered by the prohibition, but that is not the way I read the statutes.
 

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cpelliott said:
My short summary of the law is that it is illegal to possess a firearm anywhere within the campus boundary (in car exception for GWL holders). Please tell me I'm wrong. Common sense might tell us the private businesses shouldn't be covered by the prohibition, but that is not the way I read the statutes.
I would like to see how the state is going to argue that a the non-GT part of a building that they do not own that contains private retail space they do not own or lease is part of their campus. A campus does not automatically encompass private property that exists in close proximity to the actual campus. If that's the case everything inside the perimeter is close to some sort of college campus.

ETA: Another way to put it is, I don't see how any college can claim that real property they do not exert any control over is part of their campus.
 
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