AR Issue

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Hunley, Jan 3, 2011.

  1. Hunley

    Hunley Active Member

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    I took a new Daniel Defense M4v5 to the range a couple of weeks ago. I had cleaned it before, inspected it, and had no issues. I only had one magazine, the PMAG supplied by DD. Groups were great. Rounds fired included PMC Bronze 55gr FMJ, Remington 55gr FMJ, and Federal Lake City XM193.

    However, there was a bit of a feeding issue. I don't know what to make of it. It wasn't short stroking, double feeding, FTE, etc. I don't know what it's called, so here's a description:
    The round fires, BCG moves to the rear and ejects fired round, BCG moves forward grabbing new round from mag, pushes tip of round into chamber, BUT on some of the round the BCG would not move fully forward. On some instances the brass case could still be seen. Dropping the magazine and pulling back the charging handle would push the round in (forward assist wouldn't). It didn't matter which round was being fired. Seemed to happen about 5% of the time out of 200 rounds.

    I thought this might be a gas issue at first, but it didn't make sense since the round was being ejected and the new one chambered.
    Is this a PMAG issue?
    Anything I should check?
    (Yes it was properly cleaned and lubed. Round count was whatever DD did for test firing before me buying it from their facility in Ellabel.)
     
  2. auburnfan04

    auburnfan04 New Member

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    Check to see if the gas key is properly staked and not loose
     

  3. jabara572

    jabara572 New Member

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    Is the bolt carrier making it all the way behind the next round as it pushes it in the chamber? Does it lock back reliably on empty?

    Since its a DD the chance of the gun being messed up are much reduced.

    I say try a different magazine, and check buffer tube and spring for debris/blown primers, etc



    I also just read this on another forum:

    maybe?
     
  4. Hunley

    Hunley Active Member

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    It's properly staked and in no way loose. I've never seen a DD that had gas key issues.

    Yes and yes. The round goes in straight. The ejector, and sometimes the rear of the brass of the new round, is still visible in the ejection port when this happens. It only happens 5% of the time.

    Will do. Buffer tube and the detent spring are all fine.
     
  5. jabara572

    jabara572 New Member

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    You mean the extractor? When it gets jammed up, is the extractor already over the rim of the case or is it just loose in the chamber?

    Weird...
     
  6. Hunley

    Hunley Active Member

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    Yeah, the extractor. And it is over the rim of the case.

    It's like the BCG is not getting enough push to go all the way in, or it is hanging on something.

    I've done some research and seen where some people have posted that PMAGs, especially when new, can be a little overmolded or simply not flex like the metal ones do when the BCG goes over them to feed the next round, thus causing the BCG to catch on them or slow down. Also seen something about a sharp spot being in the chamber, but I don't see that on the brass.

    I'll pick up some different magazines this week. I was hoping to buy a bunch of PMAGs, but will have to find some other supplier if this is going to be an issue. May just get some GI and replace the internals with Magpul parts.
     
  7. jabara572

    jabara572 New Member

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    From what i gather, sounds like something is holding up the round and not the BCG. Since the extractor in the AR only snaps over the case rim late in the bcg travel when the round has stopped in the chamber, seems to me the round is being held tightly enough that the extractor is snapping over the case rim, which means the BCG is being driven forward good and strong but the round is being held.

    thats just my guess, im sure someone more intelligent will chime in soon
     
  8. 1clearshot

    1clearshot Member

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    The only time I had similar issue was using steel-cased ammo (Silver-bear) with USGI aluminum mag. Only flaw I found was sharp edge/ burr on M4 feed ramp. I cleaned it off with tiny file and put some extra lube on BCG and squeezed off another 100 rounds or so.... Altogether I had about 5 of this weird FTF (feed) in 400 rounds of steel-cased ammo. Never had any issue with PMAG and brass-cased ammo, though....
     
  9. vooduchikn

    vooduchikn New Member

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    I experienced a similar issue when checking out a few steel cased 5.56 rounds in my DD M4, never had an issue with brass and haven't shot steel in it again (what was I thinking?) Have you called DD. Their customer service is top notch!

    (866) 554-4867
     
  10. CoolHand

    CoolHand Active Member

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    PMC & Remington .223 are underpowered ammo with known QC issues. XM-anything was rejected for government for one or more reasons. Try some decent 5.56 ammo like Black Hills.
     
  11. kestak

    kestak New Member

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    Greetings,

    Got the same issue with a batch of manufactured ammo and once with my own reloaded ammo.

    If you have a case gauge, run a few cases in it to see if it is really SAAMI. Even if you do not reload, it is always good to have one. I check all my Self-Defense ammo with case gauge.

    For my handloads, I found out my die became loose and the full resizing was not complete. It is why my ammo was "jamming" in the chamber before the BCG full lock.

    Thank you
     
  12. jabara572

    jabara572 New Member

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    He said its not a problem with gas power, the rounds eject just fine, its a chambering issue.

    And its doing it with 3 different types of factory rounds?? Doesnt sound like a gas or out of spec / bad ammo to me....

    XM193 might not be the holy grail of perfect 5.56 ammo but if a DD doesnt eat XM193 all day long like candy you got a problem.
     
  13. Hunley

    Hunley Active Member

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    Just got off the phone with DD. They said it should handle that ammo just fine and that it clearly isn't a gas issue. They had me check the feed ramps for burrs, but there are none. Asked me a few more obvious questions as well (wet or dry, cleaned, etc.), but I won't bore y'all with that.

    They said to grab a few different magazines and see if it still did it. Even though they ship them with a Magpul PMAG, sometimes they get a bad one from Magpul that will cause issues.

    If that doesn't fix it, they told me to call back and they will see about shipping it in for inspection. It might be a small rough spot in the chamber or bore causing the issue.
     
  14. ChipM

    ChipM Active Member

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    Are you in Statesboro? You're only half an hour away from Daniel. I'd drive it rather than ship it.
     
  15. Hunley

    Hunley Active Member

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    I know. I visited the facility, purchased the gun, and got a tour a while back. However, they mentioned sending me a box to send it to them in. Might take a while longer, but it saves me a quarter of a tank of gas on the round trips to drop it off and pick it up.

    Got a few different mags today. CD Defense with Magpul followers (look well built to be Charles Daly...), Okay Industries that I installed a Magpul follower in, another 30 round PMAG, and a 20 round PMAG. I'll let y'all know how it goes.