Another murder at a church

Discussion in 'In the News' started by foshizzle, Feb 5, 2007.

  1. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    http://www.11alive.com/news/article_new ... ryid=91627

    Pastor Worth had a sermon prepared for Sunday morning's worship service but the shocking discovery made by a church employee shifted the focus of his message.

    Authorities said the case was clearly a homicide and the woman's identity remained unknown as of Sunday night.

    "There's no doubt a lot of violence took place," said Gray.


    Explain to me again why we can't CCW at church? They're turning as bad as Waffle Houses... but at least I can carry there.
     
  2. slabertooch

    slabertooch New Member

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    I believe you can carry in a church, provided you have permission from the pastor, or other authorized member of the church's governing body. At least that was how I remembered it was in Kentucky. My parents church actually had members of the congregation as a security detail, Armed and concealed, all with CCW's.
     

  3. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    O.C.G.A. 16-11-127, Georgia's public gathering law, does not permit one to carry "to or while at" a "church or church related function." Case law has extended this ban to the parking lots nearby (200 yards in one case?) where one could bring a weapon and leave it where it would be accessible to him later.

    So, technically, you can't even have it in the car, dude. :jail:
     
  4. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Here is the exemption to which I believe you are referring.

    (d) It is an affirmative defense to a violation of this Code section if a person notifies a law enforcement officer or other person employed to provide security for a public gathering of the presence of such item as soon as possible after learning of its presence and surrenders or secures such item as directed by the law enforcement officer or other person employed to provide security for a public gathering.
     
  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Does the word "employed" have any meaning in this context? If so, what?
     
  6. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    Well according to subsection (d)
    You would still be arrested and charged with the crime, but at trial you could produce this evidence and possibly have the charge dismissed.

    In other words, maybe. You would still have to go to jail, probably have to post bail, then there are the lawyer expenses. The arrest would probably stay on your record, which means you will probably have to show proof that it was dismissed the next time you renew your permit.
     
  7. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    MP beat me to it...

    To me it would barely be worth it, unless you have been carrying anyway and want a slightly greater possiblity of having the case dismissed if you are charged.
     
  8. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    What about my question? Does the word "employed" mean anything in this statute?
     
  9. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    So the bouncer at the bar I went to a few years back was in violation of the law, even if he was an employee of the bar?
     
  10. tj2000

    tj2000 New Member

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    Employed????

    Malum,
    I may not understand your question but let me try to answer; Since I have been appointed as head of security for our church, the only difference would be if they paid me for said security I would then be an employee of my church.
    If that is the case then legally one could carry while they attended a church function (only in the church you are employed).
    I would like to get your take on this because I really am head of security at our church and I would like to work within the law.
    Thanks,
    TJ :? :? :?
     
  11. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    Well, if you have to be compensated to be int he employ of the church, what is the minimum that would have to be paid for such services?

    Does it matter if that compensation somehow found its way into the offering plate? :twisted:
     
  12. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: Employed????

    I am embarassed to say I do not have a take on it. :oops:

    It appears to be a very interesting way of getting around the public gathering law. Here is one problem I can see. You must secure it as directed by the officer or security. Is there anything in that particular provision stating that officers or security may carry? No. There is an exemption elsewhere for LEOs and one for certain security guards.

    I think you may very well run into problems.
     
  13. slabertooch

    slabertooch New Member

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    I guess secured could mean, in this case, whatever the official directs you to do. For instance the Pastor directs you to secure the weapon on your person, and only to "unsecure" it in the event of an "incident".

    There is a legal definition of "Officer of the Church" I believe. IANAL so if there isn't please set me straight.
     
  14. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    (d) It is an affirmative defense to a violation of this Code section if a person notifies a law enforcement officer or other person employed to provide security for a public gathering of the presence of such item as soon as possible after learning of its presence and surrenders or secures such item as directed by the law enforcement officer or other person employed to provide security for a public gathering.


    It does not say anything in there about "pastors." :-k


    As a side note, the bible does not say anything about a "pastor" or any other single man exercising authority over a church. For more information, see What Is a Pastor? and Identifying the Church of the New Testament But that's another issue that can be debated in Off Topic, if desired. :wink:
     
  15. tj2000

    tj2000 New Member

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    Clear as mud!!!!!

    Malum,
    I refuse to beleive that you have no take on this. Just kidding. :lol: I guess this means concealed is concealed, and thats all I got to say about that.
    Take care,
    TJ :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
     
  16. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: Clear as mud!!!!!

    :wink:
     
  17. slabertooch

    slabertooch New Member

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    Technically if the church has a security team, the head of that security can direct you to "secure" the weapon on your person. Not sure what would constitute "employed" within the church.
    I belive that Kentucky Law is closely worded in regards to Places Off Limits. Many citizens meet the law by requesting permission from the pastor to carry in the church. I'll have to check on it first though.
     
  18. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    If private security cannot carry at a PG then how does university police get away with it.

    I simply refuse to believe that the campus cops here at Georgia Southern are real police officers. (If you saw them you would understand)
     
  19. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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