Ammo Choice and Courts

Discussion in 'Ammo' started by Nemo, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    Been discussed a time or 2. Some outside commentary.

    Nemo

    http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/law-shield-ammo-choice-matter-court


     
  2. Fallschirmjäger

    Fallschirmjäger I watch the watchers

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    A good prosecutor will attempt to convince the jury that you used bullets designed to main and cause unnecessary suffering. He'll rely on getting their emotional response.

    A competent defense attorney will demonstrate to a jury that you're using the same ammunition as used by X major law enforcement agency and that it is safer to use than lead or copper solid points. More than enough solid evidence to present to a logical jury.
     

  3. Rugerer

    Rugerer GeePeeDoHolic

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    For all the Googling I've done at various times, I've only ever found ammo to be a factor in a court case when it was hand loaded.

    http://www.gunforums.net/forums/gen...andloads-caused-problems-court-mas-ayoob.html

    In one case, the "shooter" was a cop where a DUI grabbed the cop's gun and got himself shot. They actually charged the cop because of carrying super-charged handloads to get the velocity advertised by Speer in his barrel.

    In the case of NH v. James Kennedy, from the late 1970s.

    There are three other cases at the link. All three turned on confirming the distance of the shooter. Two cases used handloads and the powder residue of handloads being different from factory ammo cast doubt on the distance claims in the cases. The fourth case is an example of factory ammo being strong evidence of the distance and confirming the "good guy's" claim in the case.

    This post quotes Massad Ayoobs book on the topic.

    http://gundigest.com/concealed-carry/handloads-not-a-good-idea-for-concealed-carry

     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  4. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    By itself, carrying extra-deadly ammo probably is a non -issue.

    Combined with other evidence that you're obsessed with killing people and you can't wait to get a green light to blast somebody, it can be a negative against you.

    As Doug King once said on his radio show, you never know what bit of evidence the jury will base its decision on.
     
  5. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    If you could show that you reload to save money, and your ammo is within factory specs of other ammo, you should be good.
     
  6. Rugerer

    Rugerer GeePeeDoHolic

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    Ayoob makes a point about that in one of the links.

     
  7. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    I guess then if you reload, you had better be all over social media stating what a relaxing hobby it is allowing you to target shoot more, and how much money it saves you, and how careful you are to stay within specs of xyz factory ammo to be on the safe side.
     
  8. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    If you take the witness stand anything that you say is not hearsay because you are available to be cross examined about it.

    And the "self-serving" objection wouldn't be valid IF the prosecutor challenged your memory or said you had recently made up that alibi. Then you are free to show your own notes made at or near the date in question to show your memory is accurate and your story isn't a recent fabrication.
     
  9. Scout706

    Scout706 Well-Known Member

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    My carry load is Glaser Safety Slugs. You know, "Safety"! It's in the name! :)
     
  10. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, Ayoob is not an attorney. The court will certainly allow a defendant to testify that he was somewhere else that day. They would probably allow him to take the stand and identify his diary and read his diary entry.
     
  11. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Beat me to it.
     
  12. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Given what has been linked in the thread so far, I would say hand loading is a non-issue. I would not worry about it at all, especially in Georgia.
     
  13. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I am trying to think of any relevance at all in Georgia to a criminal proceeding. Lethal force is lethal force.
     
  14. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Try this scenario :

    You want to go for a walk in Piedmont Park for exercise.

    Now you live an hour north of the city, but you choose to drive into Piedmont Park to do this . This park that is notorious for criminal activity in the heart of Atlanta .

    You dress all in black. You wear concealed soft body armor you openly carry a full-size pistol with a suppressor and an infrared tactical light .
    You carry a second a gun concealed on your waist a third got an ankle holster and a K bar fighting knife taped to your inner thigh .

    You carry two sets of handcuffs and a book on George's weapons was with the pages about last full use of self-defense highlighted in yellow .

    You also have laminated in your wallet a small card which reads " Dear officer. I understand I have just been involved in a shooting and you wish me to give a statement. Under prior consultation with attorneys, I decline to give any statement, other than to say that my use of force was entirely lawful under Georgia law and I request an attorney and I will make no statement until I've consulted with my attorney ."

    The handguns you carry are loaded with special hand loaded ammunition with modified bullets.
    You have drilled out the hollow cavities of these bullets with your own drill press, and inserted a pressure sensitive explosive in the tips . The explosive charges less than a quarter of an ounce, so it's not regulated under federal laws about the struct of devices, but they are exploding bullets of the style that used to be marketed under the name "devastator."

    You shoot somebody. The circumstances are questionable, and the cops are trying to decide whether to charge you with murder or not . Or they refer the case to the DAs office, and now the DAs office gets to make that decision whether to indict you .
     
  15. Scout706

    Scout706 Well-Known Member

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    What type of socks?
     
  16. UtiPossidetis

    UtiPossidetis American

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    Beat me to it!
     
  17. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    I think gunsmoker is just trying to tell us he got a juicy contract on his latest movie script. ;-)
     
  18. a_springfield

    a_springfield Well-Known Member

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    With all that gear you would have to have Roman sandals or you would have a heat stroke.
     
  19. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    No need to carry all that heavy gear. Just wear a nice gold chain while wearing a t-shirt that says, "Hunting Over Bait". :lol:
     
  20. Rugerer

    Rugerer GeePeeDoHolic

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    What is different about GA that prevents GSR from ever being evidence for or against someone in court?

    His main point was to refute claims that no one ever got in trouble over hand loads.