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[URL=http://onlineathens.com/stories/092507/news_20070925042.shtml said:
OnlineAthens.com[/URL]]Ambush terrifies campers
By Joe Johnson | [email protected] | Story updated at 10:39 PM on Monday, September 24, 2007

A group of friends were enjoying the waning days of summer Sunday, camping on an island in Lake Hartwell, when men toting automatic weapons stormed ashore and forced the campers to the ground.

The men were officers with the Hart County Sheriff's Office, Hartwell Police Department and Georgia Department of Natural Resources looking for an escaped prisoner from Franklin County who eluded authorities for months.

The fugitive, 26-year-old Bobby Waco Sanders of Canon, was arrested on the other side of the island about 1 a.m.

Officers landed with heavy firepower because they heard Sanders vowed he wouldn't be taken alive, Hart County Sheriff Mike Cleveland said.

"We found out he was staying on this island with other (felons), and that they were armed and dangerous, and that Sanders said there was no way he was going back to prison," Cleveland said. "We were ready for a firefight."

After finding that Sanders wasn't among the campers, officers moved to the other side of the island, where they found the fugitive and a woman, Cleveland said.

Sanders tried to get away in a raft, and used the woman as a shield while he dumped items overboard that authorities suspect were weapons, according to Cleveland.

Officers later found used and unspent .22-caliber and 9 mm cartridge casings and shotgun shells in Sanders' tent, but no guns.

Officers charged into the water and fought with Sanders. He fell from the raft, and police pepper-sprayed him.

When he was back on shore, Sanders told officers he wanted them to shoot him because he didn't want to go back to prison, according to Cleveland.

John Pearson, a 27-year-old Pendergrass man, his wife and about 10 friends were spending the night on the island when law officers came ashore looking for Sanders.

"It was just an unmarked boat in the middle of the night that pulled in with no lights on and carrying men in army fatigues," Pearson said. "We really didn't know what was going on, and they never would tell us what was going on. We felt like we were in the middle of a movie. It was pretty wild."

Pearson didn't hear anyone identify himself as an officer, he said, and the scene might have ended badly.

"Me and my brother stood up and were fixing to jump on one of them," Pearson said. "Someone potentially could have gotten shot."

Pearson said his wife, Marlena, scraped her knees when an officer ordered her to the ground.

When they arrived, Cleveland and his men announced they were law enforcement officers, the sheriff said, and had to take down the campers until officers could decide whether they posed a threat.

The campers didn't seem upset, he said.

"They actually helped us get back into the boat," Cleveland said.

Sanders was arrested on an escape charge, and the woman with him, Sheila Canady, was charged with hindering the apprehension of a criminal, interference with government property, criminal trespass, possession of tools for the commission of a crime and aiding in the escape of a prisoner, according to Jimmy LeCroy, a Madison County sheriff's investigator.

LeCroy said Sanders escaped July 23 by removing a window. He suspects Canady passed him a tool for the job during a jail visit.

Sanders has an arrest record dating to 1999, and he served fewer than three years, from December 2004 to May 2007, after weapons and burglary convictions in Hart, Madison and Franklin counties.

After breaking out of the Franklin County jail, officials said, Sanders joined with another fugitive who broke out of prison in Augusta.

Cleveland said marshals caught the other man a few weeks ago at a campsite on the banks of the Broad River, but Sanders got away.

Published in the Athens Banner-Herald on 092507
 

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This is the example to use to argue that campers/hikers should be allowed to carry guns for protection while on WMA/DNR property.

Essentially these folks were camping next to a felon that was not going to be taken alive. Never mind the commando raid by the local LEO, what if the guy wandered into camp wanting something...like your wife, or your life.
 

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pro2am said:
. . . what if the guy wandered into camp wanting something...like your wife, or your life.
Just give them what they want. A gun could make things more dangerous.
 

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pro2am said:
This is the example to use to argue that campers/hikers should be allowed to carry guns for protection while on WMA/DNR property.

Essentially these folks were camping next to a felon that was not going to be taken alive. Never mind the commando raid by the local LEO, what if the guy wandered into camp wanting something...like your wife, or your life.
I am not arguing against your point - I agree with what you are saying. However, the outcome of this situation would likely have been bad. The campers admitted they were about to "jump no one of the LEOs" so if they had weapons they would likely have drawn them too. That would have definitely ended badly for them.

Again, not arguing against your point. It just would have been tragic.
 

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Is the island in Lake Hartwell WMA, State Park, or, more likely, Army Corps of Eng'r
 

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I am not arguing against your point - I agree with what you are saying. However, the outcome of this situation would likely have been bad. The campers admitted they were about to "jump no one of the LEOs" so if they had weapons they would likely have drawn them too. That would have definitely ended badly for them.
i agree, i don't know how this all went down but if they'd just busted into my tent without warning (i'm usually asleep at 1am) most likely i'd have drawn on them and it would have ended bad.
 

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VOLGRAD said:
pro2am said:
This is the example to use to argue that campers/hikers should be allowed to carry guns for protection while on WMA/DNR property.

Essentially these folks were camping next to a felon that was not going to be taken alive. Never mind the commando raid by the local LEO, what if the guy wandered into camp wanting something...like your wife, or your life.
I am not arguing against your point - I agree with what you are saying. However, the outcome of this situation would likely have been bad. The campers admitted they were about to "jump no one of the LEOs" so if they had weapons they would likely have drawn them too. That would have definitely ended badly for them.

Again, not arguing against your point. It just would have been tragic.
Yes, it would have been bad. But the fault would not be with the campers, even though they would be the victims. It'd just be one more point for Cato's raid map :(
 
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pro2am said:
This is the example to use to argue that campers/hikers should be allowed to carry guns for protection while on WMA/DNR property.

Essentially these folks were camping next to a felon that was not going to be taken alive. Never mind the commando raid by the local LEO, what if the guy wandered into camp wanting something...like your wife, or your life.
[DevilAdvocateMode]
What if one of them had drawn on one of the already jumpy officers who were looking for an armed, dangerous felon?
[/DevilAdvocateMode]
 

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budder said:
But the fault would not be with the campers, even though they would be the victims.
Dead victims. At that point, who cares who is to blame? Once you are dead, you are dead.

The idea of no-knock warrants or not announcing yourself really scares me. If someone starts kicking in my door (could be a mistaken address, etc.) and doesn't announce LEO beforehand, they will surely be greeted by a large dog and a SIG in their face. One or both of us will be dead afterward. Honest mistakes happen. I just think it is irresponsible to not announce LOUDLY. Even if I do realize they are LEOs (I would never shoot before IDing my target) I would still have a weapon in hand and risk being shot.

I am not knocking LEOs. I think anyone who has read my previous posts will know I am pro-LEO and giving them some latitude where necessary. It is a dirty business they do. Just please announce LOUDLY so I can drop my weapon before you get a visual on me.
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
pro2am said:
. . . what if the guy wandered into camp wanting something...like your wife, or your life.
Just give them what they want. A gun could make things more dangerous.
And make sure the wife is full of BBQ and burgers at all times so she can barf on them with authority!
 

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this is a bit scary to me. My mom lives on lake Hartwell. I could see myself & sps camping on some island like that - we like to paddle & such so it is very much in the realm of possibility. I would have had a weapon on me & if those guys hadn't been screaming poilcy I'd have been shooting & probably ended up dead. :(

Since thier intel was obviously pretty good - the BG was on the island - I can't really fault the leo's for this unless they really didn't ID themselves. I just don't completely see the point of not ID'ing yourself if you are a leo & staging this kind of raid. If you are a BG it isn't really going to matter too much to you if it's leo that are jumping you or some random group of guys are jumping you the response you give will likely be the same. However the response that a law abiding person would give is completely different. :?
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
Is the island in Lake Hartwell WMA, State Park, or, more likely, Army Corps of Eng'r
well the corp does manage the lake and a bunch of campgrounds.
http://www.sas.usace.army.mil/lakes/har ... amping.htm

However from their map it appears there are multiple islands that this could have happened on and there appears to be more than one state park that is on the banks.

http://www.sas.usace.army.mil/lakes/har ... rtlmap.gif

So I would say either State Park or the Corp.
 

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TITLE 36--PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY

CHAPTER III--CORPS OF ENGINEERS,
DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY

PART 327--RULES AND REGULATIONS GOVERNING PUBLIC USE OF WATER RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS ADMINISTERED BY THE CHIEF OF ENGINEERS--Table of Contents

Sec. 327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.

(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile
firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is
prohibited unless:
(1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement
officer;
(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under Sec. 327.8,
with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting
and fishing sites;
(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
(4) Written permission has been received from the District
Commander.
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422 ... 327.13.htm

:roll:
 
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