Am I right or am I wrong?

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Daniel1968, Mar 17, 2018.

  1. Daniel1968

    Daniel1968 New Member

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    A friend and I were discussing guns, mass shootings and gun control at work today. Naturally the AR-15 became the focus of the conversation. In this conversation I stated that I had recently acquired a Springfield Armory Saint rifle to add to my collection which consists of a few M&P 15 rifles and a Sig Sauer 5.56. My co worker lumped my rifles together as all being AR-15s and this is where disagreement ensued.

    I argued that any rifle that was NOT a model 15 made by Armalite is NOT an AR-15.
    He argued that all of my rifles were AR-15s regardless of caliber and that the name defines the (military) style.

    I have looked through the accompanying documentation for all of the rifles that I own and nowhere is the AR-15 name used. The Smith and Wessons are all referred to in the documentation as M&P 15/caliber or Sport, the SIG is referred to as SIG 5.56 and Springfield is only referred to as SAINT rifle. However, online they are all referred to as being AR-15s.

    Now I'm trying to confirm if I was right or wrong in my argument that i do not own an AR-15 and that AR-15 is a name for the Armalite Rifle model 15 manufactured by the Armalite Company and the Armalite 15 is the only true AR-15.

    Am I right, or am I wrong?
     
  2. ForsythGlock

    ForsythGlock Member

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    The generic term for that platform is an AR15.
     
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  3. Mrs_Esterhouse

    Mrs_Esterhouse Swollen Member

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    Colt bought the trademark from Armalite for the AR-15 and are now the only producer legally able to brand their rifles "AR-15".

    The patent on the rifle design ran out decades ago, which is why there are so many copies, but the name "AR-15" is still trademarked exclusively by Colt.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
  4. GlockGary

    GlockGary Glock Block Supporter

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    You know, I think you should go to the ar15.com website and ask them ... :lol:
     
  5. Mrs_Esterhouse

    Mrs_Esterhouse Swollen Member

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    Definitely, and after asking, post that the NRA are sellout, Fudds. :shattered:
     
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  6. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely! And in the General Discussion forum for better responses. :panic:
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
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  7. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    You're wrong. "AR-15" is a generic trademark or brand. Which means its popularity has become synonymous for a general class of product. In this case, any AR-15 pattern firearm.

    No different than "Kleenex," "Aspirin," "Band-Aid" or "Velcro."
     
  8. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Unless I'm talking to serious gun lovers who have hundreds of makes and models of firearms memorized, I use the term "AR" or "AR-15" to refer to any rifle or carbine that has a similar look and a similar operating system, even if it's not 100% true to Gene Stoner's design and doesn't have 100% parts interchangeablity with a real Colt AR rifle or law enforcement carbine.

    If it uses AR mags, if it has the mag release and the safe/ fire switch in the same positions as the real AR, if it uses standard AR rifle buffer tubes and stocks (either full length or CAR/ M4 telescoping), then I'll call it an AR in most contexts, talking with most people.
     
  9. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Same thing with AK's or AK-47s. I'll use those terms for any clones or near-clones with the same look and basic design, even if you can't just swap parts between them with 100% compatibility. I don't worry about getting specific about models like AKM, AK-74 (for the 5.45 mm version), or other variants from other countries or commercial production guns like the Chi-Com type 56, Polish Tantal, Romanian WASR, etc.
     
  10. Savannah Dan

    Savannah Dan Cross-drawer

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    Calling a Pepsi a Coke does not make it a Coke. Just saying.
     
    Daniel1968 likes this.
  11. RedDawnTheMusical

    RedDawnTheMusical Well-Known Member

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    I generally use the term "modern sporting rifle". That actually works well as you can immediately tell who is the die-hard liberal gun hater (note that not all liberals are gun haters) in the group as they will seek to immediately "correct" me by offering up the AR-15 terminology. I'll offer that the "AR-15" nomenclature is a trademark like Xerox, and just as not all copiers are Xerox machines, not all modern sporting rifles are AR-15 rifles.

    For the gun haters, it really doesn't make any difference. They object to "high" (i.e. "normal") capacity magazines, anything that remotely looks like a modern sporting rifle, anything that fires bullets, citizens that own anything that fires bullets, etc. Their hate generally blinds them from having any time of open-minded, constructive dialog on the subject. Others aren't haters as much as objecting to specific things because that is what they learned watching CNN. With them I can explain the difference in terminology.
     
  12. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    E7F3A999-E82D-4C9A-8F29-AC2CFA9C2D8B.jpeg 8D72774F-275D-4D85-AE85-34E15F62A0FF.png This Remington R25 may be a modern sporting rifle, configured as shown.



    But the all-black AR isn't sporting at all.
    It's a people-killing machine, and the only "sports" it is good at are tactical gun matches that simulate shooting people in battle.
     
  13. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Neither Pepsi nor Coke are generic trademarks.
     
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  14. Mrs_Esterhouse

    Mrs_Esterhouse Swollen Member

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    :bigshock:Go on, tell us more about the kill-kill.
     
  15. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    The firearms industry could solve all its problems then by just producing every AR-type firearm in some form of camo finish, right? Do you think that would really fix anything? I don't recall the '94 AWB exempting camo finished rifles from its list of banned weapons.
     
  16. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    While that may work for your specific purposes, in all reality WTF is a "modern sporting rifle" anyway? If I recall, the NSSF came up with that douchebag term to counter the left's use of the other douchebag term "assault weapon." Neither term describes anything real. They're political terms but "modern sporting rifle" is a "1" while "assault weapon" is a "10" on an effectiveness scale. We should be sticking with what they are - semi-automatic rifles. Very few peoples' opinions are going to change at this point.

    And what's this other term I've been hearing - "sport utility rifle?" What the hell is that? Am I supposed to go shooting with it or take it for a drive in the woods? :shakehead:

    Why don't we try calling them "modern capacity magazines?" :lol:
     
  17. GlockGary

    GlockGary Glock Block Supporter

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    Pew! Pew! Pew!
     
  18. Daniel1968

    Daniel1968 New Member

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    Kleenex is a trade marked brand name for a Kimberly-Clark product.
    Band-Aid is trade marked brand name for a Johnson & Johnson product
    Aspirin was a brand name for acetylsalicylic acid trade marked by the Bayer Drug and Dye company.

    Facial tissues NOT made by Kimberly-Clark are NOT Kleenex they are just facial tissues.
    Adhesive bandages NOT made by Johnson & Johnson are not Band-Aids
    With Aspirin it is a bit questionable....the name was given to the chemical compound then trademarked and marketed by Bayer. The trademark rights have since been lost and/or sold all over the world.

    We all know that AR-15 was the trademarked name for the Armalite Rifle model 15. anything else was not really AR-15. Colt obtained the AR-15 name and produced their own rifle using the name... At that point only Armalite #15's and Colt AR-15's were true AR-15 rifles...??

    A generic trademark, also known as a genericized trademark or proprietary eponym, is a trademark or brand name that, due to its popularity or significance, has become the generic name for, or synonymous with, a general class of product or service, usually against the intentions of the trademark's holder.

    The name has become synonymous for the rifle platform but that does not make every similar rifle an AR-15.

    I still think I am right. at least righter than my co-worker.
     
  19. budder

    budder Moderator Staff Member

    Sure, you are "more right" in a very specific context, but what does that get you? You have a coworker that disagrees with you on the subject of firearms (it appears), but thinks you are being extremely pedantic in order to win an argument over an insignificant point.
     
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  20. Daniel1968

    Daniel1968 New Member

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    If you knew the co-worker and knew more of the argument you could understand better. This is a guy that also says that you can convert any semi-auto rifle to full auto in just a few minutes with a nail file and some needle nose pliers.

    I do realize that I am splitting hairs and I still refer to my rifles as AR-15s but, it doesn't change the fact that the AR-15 is a trade marked name and in reality only refers to specific rifles made by Armalite and later Colt.

    So, what does it get me?
    nothing but personal satisfaction.