Am I Free to FLY?

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by AV8R, Oct 16, 2010.

  1. AV8R

    AV8R Banned

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    This story was posted today on Flightinfo.com, a password protected forum for pilots and aviation professionals. I cannot provide a valid URL as it is a paid subscriber service. The post is legit, I am a member.

     
  2. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Here's what I would say to that pilot: I hope you fight this and continue to stand up for civil liberties.

    Let me ask you a simple question: Should we weigh inconvenience, loss of liberty, and embarassment against the likely benefits of increased security?
    If your answer is "no"-- we should not give up liberty or dignity no matter what-- then there's nothing to talk about.
    Your position has already been rejected by most citizens and most of the legal system. Trading liberty (and dignity) for security is standard, and it's been going on for generations.

    If your answer is "yes" we should do a cost/ benefit analysis and compare the rights being infringed to the risks being abated, then let's look at the next logical question:

    How much safer will we be if all passengers and flight crews get put through the TSA's new security procedures which involve either them seeing you naked OR them groping your body?

    And, since plastic explosives can be hidden in body cavities, I suppose we should ask how much of a risk that is, how difficult it is to detect now, and how easy it would be to detect with a body cavity search?

    But plenty of muslims are doctors and surgeons. If one of them were an extremist and terrorist, he could surgically implant a bomb into the body of somebody in a way that won't easily be seen or felt on the surface of the skin or checking the opening of somebody's butt. If I'm right about that, it shows that even the most invasive searches we could do to the masses are still not good enough to defeat a clever and determined enemy with suicide bomber volunteers and skilled professionals assisting them.
     

  3. AV8R

    AV8R Banned

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    Sorry if it wasn't clear... This was not me. It's a post at a forum ( http://forums.flightinfo.com/ ) that requires paid membership (which means you can't simply go there and view it without paying).

    If this were me, I would have kept my mouth shut and forced them to either let me go or arrest me.
     
  4. mountainpass

    mountainpass Under Scrutiny

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    Along with government healthcare they could do a colonoscopy at the same time and sell this on the public as a win-win.
     
  5. Savvy Jack

    Savvy Jack Banned

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    Thats what I was thinking if it had been me.
     
  6. AeroShooter

    AeroShooter Active Member

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    If it were me, I would have stripped to my underwear in public. If the did not satisfy their concerns, I would strip completely, shake my junk at them, and ask them if this is really the world they wish to live in.

    And I'm absolutely being serious here.
     
  7. seereus

    seereus Active Member

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    I wonder who searches the TSA employees as they cross the imaginary safety line when they go to work.
     
  8. groats

    groats New Member

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    I've seen some of those TSA employees.
    Believe me, you're going to find it difficult to hire people willing to strip search them.
     
  9. AV8R

    AV8R Banned

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    You'd make an awesome statement, but you'd probably lose your medical (mental condition). Plus, your chief pilot would not be pleased with how you represented the airline.
     
  10. janedoedad

    janedoedad Liver Abuser

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    Pilotboy should have known better. The 4th amendment has been tossed aside at airports and according the news lately Bus Terminals and Subway Stations as well. After all it is all about safety.

    Being sent to the Nude-o-scope is advanced screening. He can and did refuse electronic screening. His refusal to submit to a hand search means he was not allowed to pass the checkpoint. This is standard TSA policy. Pilotboy had to know all this and decided to become a test case. His next test wil be how to pay the 'administrative fine' that he will probably be billed for and finding what is left of his backside when the Chief Pilot is done with him.

    TSA is a horribly misguided organization of security theater and conflicting information. Unfortunately, they are in charge at the airports; If you want to fly you have to submit to their whims or you don't get to your plane. You can always (for what it's worth) file a complaint later.
     
  11. atlsrt44

    atlsrt44 Well-Known Member

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    I pretty much dont fly anymore because of this crap. A few years ago I went to fly to Pa for a friends funeral. Unfortunately I was specially selected for screening, pulled aside and put in a plexiglass enclosed line. After an exhaustive search that lasted 1hr 45min I missed my flight and my friends funeral. When I asked the TSA screener if she could hurry up so i didnt miss the funeral I was told "thats not my problem"
     
  12. RickN

    RickN New Member

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    My 'driving bubble' is much larger than it used to be. I flew frequently before 9/11. Since then I've flown to Europe once and Vancouver, BC once -- both places I can't realistically drive to.
     
  13. AeroShooter

    AeroShooter Active Member

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    Here, let me help you...

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... couver,+bc
     
  14. AV8R

    AV8R Banned

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    What you may not understand is that traditionally the TSA almost never performs secondary screening on pilots. I've seen it done once and the surrounding pilots that watched this go down created an ugly scene by cussing the TSA workers and raising holy hell. They damn near incited a riot as passengers started getting into it.

    We go through a lot of scrutiny to be able to fly and/or ride up in the cockpit. Secondary screening for pilots is almost useless. We can carry enough shampoo and personal lube to take down a 747. Our liquids go through the belt xray machine and they ignore the quantity because we are in uniform. How's a pat-down going to catch dangerous liquids? I mean they just let 40 ounces of hair gel go through.

    More and more airports are requiring pilots that are jumpseating to get a gate pass from the ticket counter in order to go through security. This means that the ticket agent checks your ID and passport against a database (CASS - Cockpit Access Security System). When you get to security, at least two TSA agents will check your ID as well. It is a fairly exhaustive process. How is fondling my beanbag going to help? How is that a wise use of time and resources?

    Meanwhile, there was already a growing wave of discontent among flight crews:

    http://www.prlog.org/10891401-airline-p ... ranny.html
     
  15. seereus

    seereus Active Member

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    A few years ago myself and wife caught a flight back from Ft.Lauderdale /Miami.

    We had to physically leave the boarding area, walk outside down some steps, and board the plane via portable steps.

    I thought to myself at that time, how easy it would had been for some nutcase ground crew personal to board the plane with bad intentions.

    Once on board the plane, no one checked tickets etc.

    So much for the GREAT security measures.
     
  16. gruntpain1775

    gruntpain1775 New Member

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    The problem with TSA is their "authority" at the gates is great while their training is minimal. You literally need to have a GED, be able to operate a hand wand and pass a drug test to be a TSA screener. Training is only a few weeks and most of it is OJT. Coupled with outlandish security measures thay fail at every corner and administered by people who have no clue how to actually prevent a terrorist act it ends up being a bunch of idiots at the gate who think they work outside of the law.

    TSA should be disolved and security for flights should be administered by the individual airlines.
     
  17. MyFred

    MyFred Banned

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    Security should administered by the individually armed passengers!!!!
     
  18. CountryGun

    CountryGun New Member

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    TSA = Totally Suckarse Attitude. It's a real power-trip for some of these fools.

    The wife and I flew back to Atlanta from Europe two years ago. I'd forgotten the two bottles of wine in my carry-on, that we'd purchased in Frankfurt. Rules state no liquids when going through a TSA checkpoint, but we were leaving the airport, not trying to board a plane!

    Ms. Attitude said "You've got two choices. Drink it, or go check the bag". She would not let me discard two $30 bottles of good German wine! I started to argue with her when another agent stepped in and threatened to "take me to a back room". I just wanted to get to the parking lot, and drive home. Begrudgingly, I went back to a ticket counter, got the bag checked, and sent it through checked baggage. I'll never understand why a US citizen needs that kind of harassment in his own country.
     
  19. gruntpain1775

    gruntpain1775 New Member

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    Wait...you were leaving the AP and they stopped you for the wine?
     
  20. Savvy Jack

    Savvy Jack Banned

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    ...is that they are simply over glorified security guards....no education required!