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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
An article in the Telegraph about the growing potential for dirty and biological weapons attacks: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...iLeaks-al-Qaeda-is-planning-a-dirty-bomb.html
Security briefings suggest that jihadi groups are also close to producing "workable and efficient" biological and chemical weapons that could kill thousands if unleashed in attacks on the West.
The security of the world's only two declared smallpox stores in Atlanta, USA, and Novosibirsk, Russia, has repeatedly been called into doubt by "a growing chorus of voices" at meetings of the World Health Assembly documented in the leaked cables.
 

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Which means that folks east and southeast of the city would be affected, too, unless it is one of the odd days when the winds are out of the east.
 

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ChipM said:
An article in the Telegraph about the growing potential for dirty and biological weapons attacks: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...iLeaks-al-Qaeda-is-planning-a-dirty-bomb.html
Security briefings suggest that jihadi groups are also close to producing "workable and efficient" biological and chemical weapons that could kill thousands if unleashed in attacks on the West.
[quote:3kg3ikqc]The security of the world's only two declared smallpox stores in Atlanta, USA, and Novosibirsk, Russia, has repeatedly been called into doubt by "a growing chorus of voices" at meetings of the World Health Assembly documented in the leaked cables.
[/quote:3kg3ikqc]

A dirty bomb hitting the CDC isn't going to make things any worse than any sort of 'clean weapon'. The smallpox vaccines are kept in a BSL-3 building (they don't rate BSL-4 level protections.) There are Much worse things to worry about in the BSL-4 labs.
 

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Yup, the CDC has some really nasty stuff in what I think is the level 4 lab. Security I hope is tighter than a frogs butt. They are well aware of the threat value they are. I worked across the street for years and It's one of the reasons I now live 40 miles away.
 

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ookoshi said:
Security at the CDC is non-trivial.
True, but it's not like they have barbed wire fences protecting the campus either. IIRC, the guards carry in Condition-3 and most haven't qualified with the weapons they carried day-to-day. Meh, what does one really expect with what they're paid by Walden? (Wonder if they still have the contract?)

Lab security is better, but it's still mostly just "administrative" security.
 

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Fallschirmjäger said:
A dirty bomb hitting the CDC isn't going to make things any worse than any sort of 'clean weapon'. The smallpox vaccines are kept in a BSL-3 building (they don't rate BSL-4 level protections.) There are Much worse things to worry about in the BSL-4 labs.
I read the article to mean that the concern was in loss or theft of biological material, not in a bomb causing it's release.
 

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ChipM said:
Fallschirmjäger said:
A dirty bomb hitting the CDC isn't going to make things any worse than any sort of 'clean weapon'. The smallpox vaccines are kept in a BSL-3 building (they don't rate BSL-4 level protections.) There are Much worse things to worry about in the BSL-4 labs.
I read the article to mean that the concern was in loss or theft of biological material, not in a bomb causing it's release.
Ahh.... in that case no one, and I mean no one, is just walking on campus and getting into the labs. It took me close to a year to get clearance to go around unescorted on campus (until then it was metal detector and hand inspection of everything, in and out) and even then I only had access to certain sections. The individual buildings themselves are usually card-locked, all have security at entrances, and if you're not on the access list you are Not getting into any of the actual labs. When people did have do do work in the labs, their cards were authorized, they were escorted, and after work was done the cards were again deauthorized.

Of course, if some group is Determined .... it's only an 8-ft fence with no barbed wire or anything, and in some spots there is just one gate-guard, no barriers and some temporary fencing (as of a few years ago.)

If you're not invited you're not getting past the visitor center without notice (umm, except for that one Red Cross volunteer that didn't notice the VC entrance and walked onto the main campus.)
If you don't have an access card you're not getting into most buildings, or past the 'concierge desk' (manned by Walden in nice suits who carry concealed.) You can get from the parking deck to on campus, but you have to be determined and can't do it accidentally or without some physical effort.
 

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What if the Islamic fanatics have inside help?
Plenty of Ph.D. chemists and M.D. research types come from the middle east.
In fact, so do some security officers.
What if a Muslim security officer and a Muslim researcher at that facility got together and decided to become martyrs for the greater cause?
Not all "bad guys" that attack a facility will be coming over the walls with guns blazing.
 

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gunsmoker said:
What if the Islamic fanatics have inside help?
Plenty of Ph.D. chemists and M.D. research types come from the middle east.
In fact, so do some security officers.
What if a Muslim security officer and a Muslim researcher at that facility got together and decided to become martyrs for the greater cause?
Not all "bad guys" that attack a facility will be coming over the walls with guns blazing.
I thought the researchers who have access to BSL-4 material have TS clearance? Although possible, this seems rather unlikely.
 

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ookoshi said:
I thought the researchers who have access to BSL-4 material have TS clearance? Although possible, this seems rather unlikely.
High level people defect from countries all the time. Ya never know what might trigger someone to 'get back' at the country that has provided them with so much. Maybe we give some people too much, when all they want is a goat. :D
 

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If said BG has passed the security checks to be employed at the CDC...
... has passed the security checks to gain access to the Bio labs
... is authorized to to do research by the lab director
... can find a way to carry something OUT of the lab while in a moonsuit and through (assisted) decontamination and (assisted) degowning before being allowed out of the airlock
... then

...oopsie? Might not even need security's help. It's like the Secret Service and their presidential security ... it's damn Hard to protect against the one, lone, determined individual.

(I don't know specifically what protocols are in place to access things in the labs, I never needed access past BSL2 but I gathered that you couldn't just open the fridge door and grab a sample instead of a Sprite.)

I was definitely NOT in the 'need to know' classification by any means, and quite happy to have it kept that way.

As an aside, I was told that the very head of one country's health department was not allowed past the visitor center desk for a conference to which they were supposed to be a primary participant and he/she was a Very well known person. They just didn't have their paperwork, so no exceptions, not even for VIP's. Perhaps it was just a story, who knows.
 

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The only real significance of the biologicals at the CDC is that they're biologic (meaning that most/all could reproduce if given the opportunity.) It's much cheaper to just produce a few grams/kilos of chemical agents and just as effective in the short run.

Ricin ...
Feb 2004, ricin found in a Senate mail room
Feb. 29, 2008, Las Vegas, a man is found in a hotel room in critical condition as the result of exposure to ricin.

Sarin ...
Japan city, 1994
Japan subway 1995
 

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Richard Preston had a book on smallpox, Demon in the Freezer, and potential for it's use as a biological weapon that was pretty interesting, though if I remember correctly it was more concerned with old Russian samples and the fact they made tons of the stuff for use in biological warfare. There was also some interesting (probably more frightening to the normal person) prospects for making it more effective through genetic engineering. Its been a while since I read it but I think he went into as much about the security for the CDC that he could.
 

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Fallschirmjäger said:
If said BG has passed the security checks to be employed at the CDC...
... has passed the security checks to gain access to the Bio labs
... is authorized to to do research by the lab director
... can find a way to carry something OUT of the lab while in a moonsuit and through (assisted) decontamination and (assisted) degowning before being allowed out of the airlock
... then
Think about how they smuggle in prison. But, that's probably way more dangerous than a balloon full of heroin. :shock:
 

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Never forget that the CDC is a government entity....feel safer now....
 

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AV8R said:
Fallschirmjäger said:
If said BG has passed the security checks to be employed at the CDC...
... has passed the security checks to gain access to the Bio labs
... is authorized to to do research by the lab director
... can find a way to carry something OUT of the lab while in a moonsuit and through (assisted) decontamination and (assisted) degowning before being allowed out of the airlock
... then
Think about how they smuggle in prison. But, that's probably way more dangerous than a balloon full of heroin. :shock:


Doesn't even have pockets. Of course, that's BSL-4 where the schrecklichkeit is.
 

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I sure hope that the security at the CDC is better than some of the government facilities around the nation. I hope 9/11 was a wake up call for some of them, but I just don't know.
 

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EJR914 said:
I sure hope that the security at the CDC is better than some of the government facilities around the nation. I hope 9/11 was a wake up call for some of them, but I just don't know.
Civilian contract security paid at about twice minimum wage....
... families in the immediate area
... not sworn in any way
.
.
.

The story I heard of their performance on the 11th of Sept wasn't encouraging. The good news is that it's a disease prevention facility, not a bioweapons facility.
 

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Didn't anyone watch The Walking Dead?... the place self-destructs and destroys everything..... quit worrying. :lol:


"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins."-- H.L. Mencken, 1923
 
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