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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
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The 1962 tests shooting the
AK-47 slowly, in semi auto mode, from sandbag positions, revealed a greater degree of accuracy than I've ever seen with any AK I've used.

This is especially impressive considering they were firing 10 shot groups!

13" groups at 200 meters,
And 23" groups at 300 m!

I wonder if the particular AK-47 they tested (probably a first generation one made in the USSR itself) with that particular batch of ammunition (which may have been higher than normal quality)
is what worked so well?

P.S. That reference to a 1955 test at Aberdeen proving ground was only a test for reliability --which of course came to the conclusion that the AK 47 is very reliable, with few malfunctions, even when subjected to intentional abuse and dirt contamination.

 

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(A) Thanks for digging that up.

(B) It may be that AK-47s were more accurate back then. My experience in shooting long range with AK-47 "style" rifles is mainly with Norinco versions. I suspect upon looking at the accuracy chart that maybe the Chinese made piss poor copies with looser tolerances than the Russians and less accuracy.
 

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Even though the prototype had a stamped receiver Early Soviet AK had a milled receiver. Didn't go back to stamped receivers until the AKM
 

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I put 30 rounds inside the 9 ring of a silhouette target with 16 in a 6" shoot n see from 175 yards with my WASR with aftermarket tritium irons a few years ago. I was resting it on the windowsill of a box blind that was next to the range area at my hunting property. I thought that was terrible accuracy for a rifle, apparently I should have taken pictures.
 

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You guys are impressive, I can just barely see a person at 100 meters, with my glasses on. He would be safe if I was shooting at him.
 

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I put 30 rounds inside the 9 ring of a silhouette target with 16 in a 6" shoot n see from 175 yards with my WASR with aftermarket tritium irons a few years ago. I was resting it on the windowsill of a box blind that was next to the range area at my hunting property. I thought that was terrible accuracy for a rifle, apparently I should have taken pictures.
WASR is not Chinese. I wonder if that is the difference?
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
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I thought effective range was based on caliber and not the rifle?
****

If that were true, what would be the effective range of a firearm chambered for the .45-70 Gov't cartridge?

What if the gun were a Derringer type
with a 4 inch barrel?
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Lighten up, Francis.
..Together, they may have been effective to 300-400 yards under ideal conditions, but only as a group. That does not mean an individual weapon is effective at that distance. Slow, aimed fire at longer ranges or even quick semi-automatic fire just isn't in the playbook...
Funny, but the US department of defense didn't bother to consult you before they tested the AK 47. Man, I sure hate to see my tax dollars wasted when the US military doesn't take advantage of Craftsman's wisdom, with the U.S. Army wasting all our time by testing AK 47's in slow and accurate fire out to long ranges of a few hundred meters and deeming which weapons to be acceptable in performance because they will successfully hit enemy soldiers out to a few hundred yards.
 

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Might learn something. All who watch this.

Nemo

 

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He performs much better with that than my Chinese Ak pattern rifle was capable of doing. I wonder what manufacturer? Also, this is the more modern 5.45. I wonder if the soviets increased the accuracy in this gun.

Is that range here in Georgia - it looks like one east-northeast of Columbus.
 

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A design that has a lot of "tolerance" displays different accuracy characteristics depending on its origin. It CAN be made to tight specs and have reasonable accuracy as demonstrated by a US government. test using "best of" hardware. Or it can be so-so based on early Chi-Com manufacturing standards. Which still matches my original assertion as to design and intent. Accuracy was not a primary design criteria.
 

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I have never fired a Russian version. I am thinking maybe that is the difference right there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I shot an early 1950's Russian made SKS with early 1990's Russian made ammo, and it was more accurate than my Norinco Chinese SKS w/either Norinco ammo or Wolf ammo.

It was breaking hollow cement building blocks at 200 yards with nearly the same regularity as an M1 Garand was.
 

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If that were true, what would be the effective range of a firearm chambered for the .45-70 Gov't cartridge?
Per Wiki: "While the effective range of the .45-70 on individual targets was limited to about 1,000 yards (915 m) with either load, the heavier bullet produced lethal injuries at 3,500 yards (3,200 m). At those ranges, the bullets struck point-first at a roughly 30 degree angle, penetrating three 1-inch (2.5 cm) thick oak boards, and then travelled to a depth of eight inches (20 cm) into the sand of the beach. It was hoped the longer range of the .45-70-500 would allow effective volley fire at ranges beyond those normally expected of infantry fire."

The 50-110 Sharps rifle used by Billy Dixon held the world record for longest kill for well over 100 years, He shot a Comanche Brave off his horse at 1,538 yards at Adobe Walls TX on June 8th 1874. The shot was reproduced a few years ago and it was determined that Dixon held at least 92 ft over the Brave.
 

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Bill Dixon got a Medal of Honor for a subsequent engagement.
 

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My Arsenal SAM-7 (milled receiver) was a 2-3 MOA gun. Using an Ultimak mount and a Burris speedot RDS, I had no problems hitting reduced size silhouettes and 10” plates at 300 yards.
 
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