Air Marshal Training Course of Fire

Discussion in 'Training' started by Nemo, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

    12,805
    817
    113
    Its good enough for the Air Marshals, looks its real tough but lots of fun or so it seems. Click link to get better set up of stages with pics and detail.

    I'll bet a dollar dayum near no one here can pass this course in first week of trying. No matter how much practice you get in during that week. Fair chance most cannot do it in a month.

    Nemo

    https://www.shootingillustrated.com...ir-marshal-qualification-test-your-ccw-skills
     
  2. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

    27,535
    680
    113
    I watched a federal air marshal instructor demonstrate this. We students in the class did not attempt it, as our training wasn't supposed to involve drawing from concealment that day.
    I "think" I could do it if I were allowed to use my full sized pistol and draw from my OWB non-concealed holster.

    The accuracy would only become a challenge due to the very fast times required.
     

  3. atlsrt44

    atlsrt44 Well-Known Member

    3,495
    183
    63
    I'd definitely hurt myself
     
  4. rabbivj

    rabbivj My Name is Inigo Montoya

    4,025
    13
    38
    I actually ran this course in one of @legacy38's classes. I barely passed it.
     
  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    67,050
    1,428
    113
    What is the point of multiple runs where you draw, fire, reholster, draw and fire in a short time frame? Why train Air Marshalls to re-holster their weapon super swiftly, in fractions of a second? This makes no sense for the real world.
     
  6. RedDawnTheMusical

    RedDawnTheMusical Well-Known Member

    10,793
    316
    83
    Agreed. I can't think of a scenario with any reasonable likelihood where this would be necessary. Drawing quickly from full concealment and engaging multiple moving targets with high speed and accuracy seems like it should be the primary criteria.
     
  7. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

    12,805
    817
    113
    Hey, I didn't design the course. Some real smart military or cop type dude developed it.

    I cannot take credit. Or blame.

    Just go take (and likely fail) the course.

    Nemo
     
  8. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

    3,254
    521
    113
    The exercise is the draw and fire. Not getting off multiple shots in a single string. Like single action fast draw practice. Don't focus so much the re-holster but the draw and fire. If you look at it from the draw and fire perspective then it does make real world sense.
     
  9. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

    27,535
    680
    113
    Yeah, I don't recall any "on the clock" reholstering.

    The Stage 1 in that Shooting Illustrated article in the OP means to

    On the clock, at the signal, draw and shoot one round. The clock stops on that gunshot.
    (how would your range timer know when to stop, if the exercise wasn't complete until you reholstered?)

    Then you restart the timeclock and do it again.

    The sum of both your "single shots" must be not more than 3.3 seconds.
    So if you used up 2.0 seconds for that first draw-and-shoot, you better make your second shot in 1.3 seconds or less. If you can average 1.5 seconds per single shot, drawing from concealment, then you're good. That even leaves you a little wriggle room since the total time limit is 3.3 seconds, not an even 3.0.
     
  10. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

    27,535
    680
    113
    From a range safety perspective, and a legal liability standpoint, I don't think any instructor would tell students to take a test or challenge were reholstering a loaded gun was to be done as fast as possible, followed by immediate re-drawing of it and shooting it again. That sounds like an accidental discharge just waiting to happen, putting a bullet in some student's hip or thigh (or meat w/2 veg, if a dude is doing appendix carry.)
     
  11. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

    27,535
    680
    113
    Very few ranges would allow anybody to attempt to re-create this test/ qualification.
    Not only does it require drawing from concealment, but it involves multiple targets, up to three of them, with 3 feet of empty air space between the targets. That can't be done at any indoor range with individual shooting lanes, even if you were allowed to rent three adjacent lanes and hang targets on each of them (the spacing would be too far apart).

    Then, there's that other requirement for one stage that you start facing away from the targets, and turn 180 degrees toward them while reaching for your gun. That's a no-go pretty much everywhere, unless the range is reserved for a private class under an instructor who has his own liability insurance coverage that will take precedence over the gun club's policy.
     
  12. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

    12,805
    817
    113
    Range I frequent would and routinely does. But we are outdoor.

    The 180 degree turn is routine.

    Valdosta range also does it routinely. Or did while I was there.

    Nemo

    http://www.lrsa.info/index.html
     
  13. legacy38

    legacy38 Well-Known Member

    9,075
    89
    48
    The holstering is not timed. The shooter holsters when done shooting. The times for the individual strings are added together when appropriate.

    Example 1:

    String one: The shooter draws and fires a shot in 1.5 seconds.
    String two: The shooter draws and fires a shot in 1.45 seconds.

    The total for both strings is 2.95 seconds. Each shot was a hit. The shooter is still passing at this point.

    Example 2:

    String one: The shooter draws and fires a shot in 1.75 seconds.
    String two: The shooter draws and fires a shot in 1.7 seconds.

    The total for both strings is 3.45 seconds. Each shot was a hit. The shooter has failed because they exceeded the total allowed amount of time
     
    hma153 and HCountyGuy like this.
  14. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

    12,805
    817
    113
    See Link Below.

    First Saturday of every month, 3rd Wed also. Scroll down the page to the larger photo. Its from late last summer so my recollection of first course of fire might be a bit off. Full width is not shown in pic.

    The left side cardboard and paper is the first stage Course of Fire. Started at line, facing away, hands above shoulders. Start beep and draw as moved left a couple steps to mark on ground, 2 rounds CoM into each of 2 targets, moved up to barrier (cardboard wall) and 2 rounds into a couple targets left side then to right side to a couple targets then fire to ring a plate behind the barrier for finish time. 2 rounds CoM each target, points added to time for score. 1 mandatory reload. Fire 2 rounds max at each target. Range to targets was between about 3 and 12 yards.

    Steel plates are next stage, ring 4 corners then center for time, 3 times thru and fastest 2 score. Range was 4-10 yards. Stage 3 at right was similar to 1 with more moving, barriers and 1 head hit, 2 CoM hits required with more targets, some partially black or hands no shoot targets. Reload as needed or desired. Fire as many as you choose, best 3 scored along with time. Range was 2 to 12 yards.
    Again, memory on details may be a bit off.

    One CoF fired at a time, then when all 3 done downrange to score and paste and collect brass.

    Come on up and you can join us. I shoot stock so if you need to borrow a pistol you're stuck in stock class. This is the pistol/rimfire range. 270 degree brand new Action Shooting range will be opening as soon as grass grows enough for second mowing.

    We also have a trap, a skeet, 300 yard rifle and good bow range. Along with the 2 fishing ponds. Yes I am in the photo but facing away so no one recognizes me.

    Nemo

    https://sites.google.com/view/lynchburgiwla

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019