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Discussion in 'In the News' started by Nemo, Feb 13, 2018.
Kinda glad WV is not part of Va any more.
Go read the rest of the article. Really interesting.
Failing to "Go home safe at night" will not be tolerated.
I think cops who fail to shoot gun-waving suspects should be fired.
Was this particular cop SURE that the bad guy's gun was unloaded?
Unless I knew it wasn't loaded, and I mean really KNEW (not just heard it hearsay from his momma or girlfriend, etc.), I'd consider it MY SWORN DUTY to pump lead into his torso until he collapsed and was obviously incapable of further voluntary muscle contractions.
Yeah, the cop SHOULD be fired for not killing the armed gunman.
His fellow officers did the right thing by shooting the pistol-waving nut down as soon as they arrived at the scene.
If you value the lives of criminals so much that you're willing to not only expose yourself to what looks like imminent death at the hands of said criminal BUT also willing to gamble with the lives of other innocents in the area, yeah, law enforcement is not for you.
If the bad guy had a knife, maybe it would be reasonable for the cop to just cover him from several yards' distance and keep talking. Maybe if the bad guy had a baseball bat or nunchucks, THEN we could indulge this "more talk, no escalation" philosophy.
When bad guy has a gun out, shoot him down. Immediately.
There are two significant differences between you and the cop.
1. He was on scene and had first hand knowledge of the situation.
2. He does not have a bloodlust for citizens.
And if we are all lucky you will remain in the Lawyer profession and never wear a Badge.
I have had suspicions in the past but now I am completely convinced you have gone way way round the bend.
Officer discretion. If an officer first on the scene cannot access the situation and act accordingly, then may as well send Robocops to just blow away any suspects.
Only cite the officer with wrong-doing if the suspect hurts someone because the officer failed to use force.
If the situation ends well without force used, then what-if games after the fact don't count.
Number one is what is most important here (number two is just an ad hominem). The officer is a military combat veteran and came to the conclusion that the man was not a threat. I have been to many "distraught" armed man scenes and not kill the guy with mental issues, and neither did anybody else at the same scene.
I am not, however, going to fault the officer that shot him when he pointed his gun at him.
Not faulting someone's discretion choosing to shoot based on circumstances is one thing. Someone who considers it his "sworn duty to pump lead" is quite another thing.
Cop or non-cop, I don't think anyone would disagree this.
This isn't Fallujah or Helmand Province or any of the dozens of other places where the US military shouldn't be. But if the police continue to pretend it is, then they should expect reciprocity from us. Conflating police work and military actions will not end well for anybody.
This. Circumstances change and reading the story, it seems quite possible that both choices were right at the moment they were made.
So Moe, how long have you had this fantasy about people like you killing police officers in revenge?
And your fantasy gunsmoker of pumping lead into his torso until he collapsed and was obviously incapable of further voluntary muscle contractions. How long has this being bugging you?
People like me? Killing cops in revenge? Perhaps you forgot that our own 11th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled back in March 2017 that the cops can shoot you dead for no other reason than answering your own door with a gun in hand:
People like me? Fantasy? Really? If the cops don't change their training and their tactics to reflect what we pay them to do for us, which is not to shoot us on sight, then there's going to be more "people like me" who'll believe we don't have any other recourses left when engaged by the police for whatever reasons.
I didn't make any excuses for the guy getting shot - he pointed a gun at the cops. I would have shot him also. But when the cops begin the continuum of force by shooting as step one, when other actions are already in play, then there's a major problem. I have just as much right to go home safely everyday as the cops do.
One could argue you have MORE right to go home safely every day because you have not voluntarily taken a paid position that places you in jeopardy. In a day and age when we have cops being fired for not shooting someone its a legitimate question - when do you get to defend yourself against abuse by government officers? We have folks being shot who posed no discernible threat by any reasonable standard. We also have situations that get videotaped routinely of cops harassing 2A citizens. There are enough examples of bad cops and bad decisions that these are not unreasonable questions. On the flip side, there are tons of good peace officers. I volunteer to train my sheriffs department quarterly in my area of expertise and do so happily because I respect and value what they do. My interactions with some other departments have not resulted in the same level of respect due to their behavior/attitude. I've met so many steroid abusers with badges in the past 5 years its crazy.
Remember the young mother who got her head blew off by a cop, just for slow bumping a police car's bumper with her car?
And the cop bragged about how her head exploded.
There is too much evil in the hearts of too many men to believe that our rights could never be violently and with bloodshed, abused by our government.