A Defensive Draw Stroke

Discussion in 'Training' started by Firearmz, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. Firearmz

    Firearmz New Member

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    Defensive Draw Stroke
    A defensive draw stroke is not only an efficient way to get a pistol out of a holster, but a way to ensure you keep your pistol and not just hand it to someone. You will not hear or see me write point shooting because of all the controversy and misunderstanding of the term. I will not advocate a certain stance, Weaver, Isosceles or whatever the latest stance is. We use a fighting posture, now if I had to pick one for full extension shooting it will be the Modern Isosceles. In force of force training and exercises we consistently see the same errors in fighting with a handgun:
    1. Timing, everyone wants to go for a gun. Know when it is time to get it and when it is time to leave it alone. Getting better position (distance) or some form of physical control of the persons limb closest to your gun is your friend.
    2. Everyone wants to project that gun as far toward the target as possible to soon. This will have your draw fouled by your opponent; you may even have the gun just taken away. You will probably be fighting over the gun, now your problem has grown dramatically.
    3. Blading the hips, we see cops blade the gun from people during an interview stance to protect the gun, this bears false witness for the following reason:
    a. Look at police videos, most cops that suffer a successful gun grab have been:
    1. Knocked out
    2. Knocked to the ground
    3. Or had the gun taken during the draw stroke
    4. Or multiple people have gotten involved
    b. When you blade the body you offer your gun to anyone that may be behind you. Lineman in foot ball stand square to the other line man and keep weight forward, to keep from being knocked on their ass. Get knocked on your butt and we move back to a.

    Count one
    In a fighting posture that offers you the opportunity to move and move fast, weight forward of the feet, nose over toes if you will. Keep the hips square to the target. The support hand comes high to the chest, this affords you the best opportunity to block, and fend off a strike to the head. The firing hand clears any cover garment, you drive the hand down onto the pistol, as high up the back strap as you can get it, the trigger finger is along side of the holster, the three remaining finger tips meet the front strap sliding into a full grip. The pressure is added like squeezing a pair of pliers, front to rear. The firing thumb is flagged high, (helps to remove more garment that you may have missed). This firing grip is obtained in the holster and it must remain consistent, changing the pressure or grip will cause inaccurate shot placements and or loss of control. Your grip is also part of weapons retention!

    Insert Picture

    Count two
    The gun is drawn straight up the vertical line of the body to it’s highest point, the elbow and shoulder is high, (you will find a burning sensation in the shoulder if you hold it for a few seconds) the wrist is locked straight, keeping the elbow pulled in as tight to the body as we can, (no chicken wings) this will bring the gun to what we call the pectoral reference point (guys should be able to tickle their nipple with that flagged thumb, ladies depending on structure will have to pick a reference point, bra seem or something). The gun will be pointed slightly down, this will allow you to shoot and not hit yourself in the support hand if you are fending or fighting with it (0 to 5 feet retention shooting).


    Count 3
    The gun comes right across the chest to meet the support hand where it marries into a full two handed firing grip, this is where the side to side grip comes from, the support hand. The gun is kept horizontal to the ground. The pistol is projected only enough that you can visually reference some part of the pistol in your peripheral vision. Again the gun is higher than it was in 2. This is say maybe beyond 5 feet to 10 feet.




    Count 4
    This count is any where between 3 and full extension depending on the proximity of the target. When you leave 3 the gun comes up and into the line of sight, no since waiting until the gun is all the way out to see the gun or sights. As a matter of fact each count in the 4 count draw stroke brings the gun higher than it was previously. From the ending of 3 and all the way out to full extension, the gun is visually referenced in some form, gun silhouette, sights or what ever you may want to call it or just what you need to see. If sighted fire is possible it is always more accurate. For example at 10 feet I may only need to see the gun in peripheral to hit, at 70 feet I will need to see hard sights.

    Remember distance and time is going to be a consideration, if you start off at 2 shooting from retention, we do not remain there, if at all possible we shoot and move, as distance allows, we move the gun to 3 and out to 4 if possible.

    If you use the out of holster, rotate the gun to the target draw stroke you may very well shoot the support hand if fending, you may hand the gun to your opponent. It is a bad habit to drop the elbow, dropping the elbow raises the muzzle. This crap may work on paper it will not work reliably when we are fighting. The gun in close to the body as described in the 4 count draw stroke allows for greater retention and more control over the gun.

    Later when I have time I will post a photo tutorial with this.

    Written by Ken Forbus
    Ken currently trains civilians, law enforcement, military and government agencies. He is also the Owner of FIREARMZ- Professional Firearms and Defensive Training.
    For training biography you can check this link
    www.firearmz.net
     
  2. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, yeah! :shoot:



    :lol:
     

  3. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    So, just to clarify, your fighter's stance is different from a boxer's stance, which would "blade" the gun away from your opponent?
     
  4. mzmtg

    mzmtg Active Member

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    I've taken a class from Ken. The way he demonstrates is a slightly angled stance. The gun-side foot is slightly behind the other foot. But, as he said above, the hips are square to the target. The idea is to keep it easy to move quickly in any direction if you need to.

    Here's me (at Ken's class) in the brown pants and black shirt, on my way from step 2 to step 3 (my stance isn't perfect, but you get the idea):
    [​IMG]

    Thanks for posting this Ken, I was actually digging through your forum a few days ago looking for it 8)
     
  5. Firearmz

    Firearmz New Member

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    No it is not a boxer stance, boxers do things in the context of boxing where there are rules and no weapons. We try to have a multi-functional platform, fight, wrestle, run, shoot, stab and or run thru the guy if needed.
     
  6. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Ok, thanks. I understand the position better with the picture.
     
  7. Firearmz

    Firearmz New Member

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    Ok pictures
    This could be a fending position or halting a unknown contact. The hands could be a little bit higher in all actuality.
    [​IMG]

    This is position 1, note shirt is pulled all the way off the gun, and a firm grip is established.
    [​IMG]

    Here we are at Position 2, notice how high the elbow and shoulder is, the wrist is locked for stability and control.
    [​IMG]

    This is position 3, note the gun hand and support hand have married here at the centerline of the body, the gun is just in peripheral view.
    [​IMG]

    In the rest of the photos, notice how the gun comes up as it goes out, always getting higher into the line of sight. At any time due to target proximity I can stop and shoot or shoot as I go out.

    [​IMG]
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  8. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Ken, I have a question about the proper grip with the Glock and a problem that I keep having. Let me know if I should make a new thread or if I should post it here. (a new thread may be better for future reference when people search)
     
  9. Firearmz

    Firearmz New Member

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    we can do it here, it falls into the draw stroke. I will post some pictures after while.
     
  10. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    K, I'll have to take pictures, since whenever I try to explain this to someone they are puzzled.

    *goes to take pictures*
     
  11. Firearmz

    Firearmz New Member

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    The you tube demo is not correct, the gun cants out, he is dropping the elbow, and the gun stops at his stomach. Also his shooting hand is on his chest, what good does that do? Look at the muzzle and if you had to strike or fend someone where is it pointing and very close to what?
     
  12. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Ok, here are the pictures.

    The problem I have with my grip is that my natural grip puts the first joint of my shooting (right) thumb right under the very back/left part of the backstrap. When I shoot that part digs into my joint. Whenever I shoot >300 rounds it rubs the skin away.

    [​IMG]

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    The only thing I can think of is that the Glock is just not conducive to my shooting style. Well, that or I shave down that part that digs into me, but I am not willing at this point to permanently alter my pistol.
     
  13. ptsmith24

    ptsmith24 New Member

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    My right thumb doesn't ride up that high...And I don't see much difference in my grip...maybe hand size?
     
  14. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    It's always been natural to have my thumbs up high.
     
  15. Firearmz

    Firearmz New Member

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    Ok here are some pictures, they may be a little big.

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]

    As for your grip it is not bad, the support hand could rotate up and point the thumb at the target. Talking about the knuckle at the thumb joint, yes I have a large callus there. In time, if you shoot enough the pain leaves lol. This grip affords us the most control of recoil and the gun it self.
     
  16. mzmtg

    mzmtg Active Member

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    yeah, the slide doesn't get anywhere near your thumb joint:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. ptsmith24

    ptsmith24 New Member

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    Looks close though...

    Maybe a 1911 will be in my name after tonight. 8)
     
  18. mzmtg

    mzmtg Active Member

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    If you look close, you can see the black frame is visible between my shooting hand thumb and the hammer.