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Man of Myth and Legend
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and something we all must object to.
Which part the torture or the fact he should have been tried in a Military Court as an enemy combatant with no Constitunal rights whatsoever?
 
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Which part the torture or the fact he should have been tried in a Military Court as an enemy combatant with no Constitunal rights whatsoever?
Dangerous precedent either way. So long as the government can reclassify an individual as “other” then constitutional protections need not apply. Thank you war on [alcohol|drugs|terrorism|other “moral” cause] for granting government such overreach.
 

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I am on the fence with this. If you were able to extract truthful information via the use of enhanced interrogation that would save numerous lives, would you do it?

Immoral?

What about NOT using enhanced interrogation and watching the lives you could have saved all die in horrific and violent ways?

Immoral?

I have heard this argument ever since 9/11 and Gitmo.
 

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I am on the fence with this. If you were able to extract truthful information via the use of enhanced interrogation that would save numerous lives, would you do it?

Immoral?

What about NOT using enhanced interrogation and watching the lives you could have saved all die in horrific and violent ways?

Immoral?

I have heard this argument ever since 9/11 and Gitmo.
The problem is that you can get some people to say anything, including lying, by torturing them.

Just ask my big brother. He used to make me say all kinds of things when we were kids, simply by torturing me.
 

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The problem is that you can get some people to say anything, including lying, by torturing them.

Just ask my big brother. He used to make me say all kinds of things when we were kids, simply by torturing me.
I know ...and I recognize the problem. That was why I said "truthful" information.

I watched a movie when I was a kid ...cannot remember the name of it ...but 2 interrogators were able to get a confession out of someone who was innocent by not allowing him to sleep until he confessed to the crime.
 

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I am on the fence with this. If you were able to extract truthful information via the use of enhanced interrogation that would save numerous lives, would you do it?

Immoral?

What about NOT using enhanced interrogation and watching the lives you could have saved all die in horrific and violent ways?

Immoral?

I have heard this argument ever since 9/11 and Gitmo.
IMHO, my death due to lack of information gained through torture is worth safeguarding your rights. My living because the government can now blackbag anybody (including paper-holding citizens) is a waste of my life. Patrick Henry said it best.
 

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So it would seem Government excess is the problem not the torture or classification of the one on trial. Torture just like war is not going away. Frankly I could live without either.
 

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I know ...and I recognize the problem. That was why I said "truthful" information.

I watched a movie when I was a kid ...cannot remember the name of it ...but 2 interrogators were able to get a confession out of someone who was innocent by not allowing him to sleep until he confessed to the crime.
Common police tactic with long hours of interrogation.
 

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The practice of the federal government immediately following 9/11, when it captured anyone overseas from whom it believed it could extract national security information, was to hand the person over to the CIA for torture -- the feds call it "enhanced interrogation" -- at a "dark site" in a foreign country with which the U.S. does not have an extradition treaty.
Sounds like the US needs to get off its moral high horse when it comes to us condemning other countries for their lack of respect for human rights and dignity. Are we any better than China? Or Russia? Or anyone? Hypocritical we are.
 

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Are we any better than China? Or Russia? Or anyone?
When it comes to the subject of Torture of course we are not and we will not be in the future.
 

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Dangerous precedent either way. So long as the government can reclassify an individual as “other” then constitutional protections need not apply. Thank you war on [alcohol|drugs|terrorism|other “moral” cause] for granting government such overreach.
Wait until they label gun owners, trump supporters, constitutionalists as domestic terrorists...
 

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Wait until they label gun owners, trump supporters, constitutionalists as domestic terrorists...
Nah, that won’t make the news. Some small town somewhere will label a pair of PTA moms as insurgents and justify waterboarding. Then people will lose their collective minds.
 

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Then people will lose their collective minds.
I was under the impression that has already occurred for the most part due to various reasons.
 

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Regarding the "exclusionary rule" for evidence that the government has obtained through the violation of somebody's fourth amendment rights:

The general rule is that such evidence is inadmissible in the state's case in chief. In other words, the State can't bring this up on its own. However if the defendant testified inconsistently with the prior (tainted) testimony or statement, this can be used to impeach the credibility and undercut the truthfulness of the more recent testimony. The evidence that could not be used directly by the state can be used indirectly by the state to rebut a lie told by the defendant in court.
 

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Wait until they label gun owners, trump supporters, constitutionalists as domestic terrorists...
Wait? From what I've read I thought that already happened.
 

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Man of Myth and Legend
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
It has. But maybe his blindness prevented him from seeing it?

Nemo
 

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I see what you did there. :giggle:
 
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