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Just a Man
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Josh Blackman‏Verified account @JoshMBlackman
1/ Divided 9th Circuit panel finds that 2nd Amendment "Second Amendment encompasses the right of a responsible law-abiding citizen to carry a firearm openly for self-defense outside of the home" https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4616855-072418-9th-Cir-Young-v-Hawaii-2nd-Amendment.html … - J O'Scannlain & Ikuta in majority. J Clifton in dissent.

1:04 PM - 24 Jul 2018

Josh Blackman‏Verified account @JoshMBlackman
4/ Here is the crux of the panel's majority opinion: the right to "keep" arms applies in the home, but "bear" arms suggests a separate right outside the home.


1:18 PM - 24 Jul 2018
 

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Wow, this is truly groundbreaking. Expect a full panel (en banc) appeal.
 
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I predicted this many years ago . . .

Holding - Concealed carry is not protected by the Second Amendment. Carrying openly is. This is the way the Founders would have seen the right. It is the way many early cases discussed the right (see Nunn v. State, the earliest Georgia case on the subject, which ruled that the indictment must be quashed because Nunn was carrying a pistol openly in his hand, but it was constitutional to forbid the "carrying of certain weapons secretly" - emphasis in original). http://www.guncite.com/court/state/1ga243.html
 

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Keep in mind when you are reviewing this that the 9th Circuit already ruled back in 2016 in Peruta that concealed carry is not protected by the constitution. They left unresolved whether carrying openly is protected.

This panel of the Ninth Circuit is bound by Peruta and rules in accord with Peruta but addresses the carrying openly question that was left unresolved by Peruta.

If the search engine worked, y'all could go read the Peruta thread.
 

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I predicted this many years ago . . .

Holding - Concealed carry is not protected by the Second Amendment. Carrying openly is. This is the way the Founders would have seen the right. It is the way many early cases discussed the right (see Nunn v. State, the earliest Georgia case on the subject, which ruled that the indictment must be quashed because Nunn was carrying a pistol openly in his hand, but it was constitutional to forbid the "carrying of certain weapons secretly" - emphasis in original). http://www.guncite.com/court/state/1ga243.html
Speaking of Nunn v. State, it makes its appearance on pages 21 and 22 of 76!

Critically, we must afford Nunn's understanding of the Second Amendment a good deal of weight, because, as Heller explains, "its opinion perfectly captured the way in which the operative clause of the Second Amendment furthers the purpose announced in the prefatory clause."
The opinion then cites another case holding that no other case "is discussed more prominently or positively in Heller than the Georgia Supreme Court's 1846 decision in Nunn v. State."
 

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Just a Man
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
VOLOKH CONSPIRACY

Ninth Circuit: Second Amendment Secures Right to Carry Guns in Public

The Ninth Circuit had earlier held -- citing D.C. v. Heller -- that the Second Amendment doesn't secure a right to concealed carry, but the panel now holds that it secures a right to carry openly (though it reserves the possibility that a state might be able to choose whether to allow open carry or to allow concealed carry).

Eugene Volokh|Jul. 24, 2018 1:56 pm
https://reason.com/volokh/2018/07/24/ninth-circuit-second-amendment-secures-r
 

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Just a Man
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Interesting info on the case and how it came about-

Stephen Gutowski‏Verified account @StephenGutowski
This is a very interesting ruling that nobody saw coming. No gun rights groups were involved with the case. It was filed by a native Hawaiian Vietnam vet with help from a pro bono lawyer who told me he was a bit surprised to see the ruling come today.

4:20 PM - 24 Jul 2018
 

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Interesting and good news. Let's see how this affects the handful of states that currently ban the general open carry of pistols. Are you listening Florida and South Carolina?

The few other states that do so are not worth mentioning.
 

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Man of Myth and Legend
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Seems like the 9th is beginning to fear the chances of breaking up, Kavanaugh in general and becoming truly woke in the reality of the Constitution and 2A.

I am amazed.

Nemo
 
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American
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Interesting and good news. Let's see how this affects the handful of states that currently ban the general open carry of pistols. Are you listening Florida and South Carolina?

The few other states that do so are not worth mentioning.
No immediate impact but other Circuits can take note of the decision if not reversed en banc.
 
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Interesting info on the case and how it came about-

Stephen Gutowski‏Verified account @StephenGutowski
This is a very interesting ruling that nobody saw coming. No gun rights groups were involved with the case. It was filed by a native Hawaiian Vietnam vet with help from a pro bono lawyer who told me he was a bit surprised to see the ruling come today.

4:20 PM - 24 Jul 2018
Figures, because the gun rights groups are so fixated on concealed carry.
 

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From Footnote 21:

We do not address whether, after Peruta II, a concealed carry regime could provide a sufficient channel for typical, law-abiding citizens to exercise their right to bear arms for self-defense. See 824 F.3d at 927. While the County's police chief purportedly awaits an "exceptional case" to grant a concealed carry license, section 134-9 is effectively a ban on the concealed carry of firearms. As counsel for the County openly admitted at oral argument, not a single concealed carry license has ever been granted by the County.
The footnote goes on to explain that all the other counties combined have issued 4 licenses in the last 18 years.

Thus, even if the State and County remain free to accommodate the right to bear arms with concealed carry after Peruta II, an issue we do not decide, section 134-9 does not offer a realistic opportunity for a concealed carry license.​
 

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I must concede this, in consideration of the cases regarding magazines a couple weeks back, it has happened.

Nemo

Hand Mouth Organ Cartoon Jaw
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Firearms Policy‏ @gunpolicy
Replying to @Guntalk
Great decision by Judge O'Scannlain. (Another one.) Non-zero chance this is vacated and reheard en banc. Every O'Scannlain pro-2A decision was vacated and reheard by the full court. Nordyke, Peruta/Richards, Teixeira. Until SCOTUS takes a case, that trend is likely to continue.

10:22 PM - 24 Jul 2018
 

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Sigh. Unfortunately, I agree with the prediction of whoever sent that last tweet above this post.
 
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