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Discussion Starter #1
Just an observation.
Doing a little shooting today, played with a .17hmr and a 7 mag.

Had some 8"x8" 18ga scrap steel laying around was utilizing it as targets at about 60yds.

.17 and the 7 mag was making nice round holes thru these targets.

Just for the hell of it, I decided to take a shot with the XDSC.
Really did not think I would even hit the target at that distance.

As luck would have it, I hit dead center and the bullet just put a nice dent in the plate. No penetration what so ever. :roll:
 

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The only thing that I had that went through my computer tower was .30-06. Buckshot, 9mm, .38 spc, and .45 went in but didn't come out.
 

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seereus said:
No penetration what so ever. :roll:
Try some .357 SIG next time and see what happens. :wink:
 

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seereus said:
Just an observation.
Doing a little shooting today, played with a .17hmr and a 7 mag.

Had some 8"x8" 18ga scrap steel laying around was utilizing it as targets at about 60yds.

.17 and the 7 mag was making nice round holes thru these targets.

Just for the hell of it, I decided to take a shot with the XDSC.
Really did not think I would even hit the target at that distance.

As luck would have it, I hit dead center and the bullet just put a nice dent in the plate. No penetration what so ever. :roll:
Why don't you test this against a human body then let me know . I never had a issue with 9mm 115 gr but I was never trying to penetrate a armored vehicle either :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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If you carry anything less than a GAU-8 you will never be prepared.
 

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Pandashire said:
If you carry anything less than a GAU-8 you will never be prepared.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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Why don't you test this against a human body then let me know . I never had a issue with 9mm 115 gr but I was never trying to penetrate a armored vehicle either :lol: :lol: :lol:
My thoughts exactly. :D

I have no problems with 9mm as a carry round.

1) In self defense, I will not likely be shooting 60 yards
2) I'll bet it still pokes a nice hole in flesh, even at that range

My carry guns are all 9mm unless I need pocket carry which resorts to a .38spl. I keep a 45ACP for my bedside gun, but prefer the extra capacity of 9mm for carry.
 

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seereus said:
.17 and the 7 mag was making nice round holes thru these targets.

Just for the hell of it, I decided to take a shot with the XDSC.

As luck would have it, I hit dead center and the bullet just put a nice dent in the plate. No penetration what so ever. :roll:
And all of those rounds were fired from a sidearm, correct?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
livesounder said:
seereus said:
.17 and the 7 mag was making nice round holes thru these targets.

Just for the hell of it, I decided to take a shot with the XDSC.

As luck would have it, I hit dead center and the bullet just put a nice dent in the plate. No penetration what so ever. :roll:
And all of those rounds were fired from a sidearm, correct?
No, .17 and 7 mag = Rifles

I'm not bashing the 9mm, I just thought that it would had punched a hole.
 

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I am actually just wrapping up a class on firearms forensic investigation. One topic we discussed was how comparing bullet penetration of things like glass, wood, or metal, is not comparable to live tissue. In the past when investigating penetration people would line up pieces of pine board and see how many boards each round would go through, but when the same test was done with pig tissue as a stand in for human flesh the results were completely different. So just because 9mm won't penetrate steel doesn't mean it won't do serious damage to the human body.
 

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Unlikely .45ACP or .40S&W would have gone through either. I think the real point here is that common pistol rounds are ALL weak.
 

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Remember, rifle bullets have more room to accelerate in the barrel. After the bullet leaves the barrel, speed is at it's peak and slows down from there (assuming you don't have a long barrel with a fast burning powder).

Compare the amount of powder and muzzle velocity of the rifle rounds to the 9mm, and you'll see the difference. It's possible that the shape of the round makes a difference, as well.
 

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seereus said:
livesounder said:
seereus said:
.17 and the 7 mag was making nice round holes thru these targets.

Just for the hell of it, I decided to take a shot with the XDSC.

As luck would have it, I hit dead center and the bullet just put a nice dent in the plate. No penetration what so ever. :roll:
And all of those rounds were fired from a sidearm, correct?
No, .17 and 7 mag = Rifles
Bingo!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
MrMorden said:
Unlikely .45ACP or .40S&W would have gone through either. I think the real point here is that common pistol rounds are ALL weak.
I will have a XD45 to try out here in the next day or two.
Providing I can get lucky and hit the target again, I will soon know.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Signal 69 said:
9mm 115-127gr you should use a +P load if you can get +P+ in 115gr and 124gr the better. I carry a 124gr +P+ Speer Gold Dot get it here http://www.BuffaloBoreammo.com its expensive but how much is your life worth.
I was utilizing the 115gr FMJ Wallyworld Target rounds. I think its Winchester.
 

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seereus said:
Signal 69 said:
9mm 115-127gr you should use a +P load if you can get +P+ in 115gr and 124gr the better. I carry a 124gr +P+ Speer Gold Dot get it here http://www.BuffaloBoreammo.com its expensive but how much is your life worth.
I was utilizing the 115gr FMJ Wallyworld Target rounds. I think its Winchester.
There's part of the problem. The range ammo is a lighter load to begin with. It's not supposed to tear up a range. Second out of a handgun you don't get a complete powder burn before the bullet leaves the barrel. Unless you have a 10 or 12 inch barrel only about 3/4 of the powder is being used to push the bullet. Try it in an Uzi and it will perform a little different. A lot of sub machine guns do quite well using the 115g 9mm round.
 

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Well, with 18 rds. of 9mm, I'll pester the crap out of the bad guy till the cops show up, or he gets bored and leaves ;)
I personally don't want to stand in front of any round coming at me.
pistol= close quarters
rifle= reach out an touch'em
 

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9mm is a weak round. It was born from weakness for the sake of saving money.

Originally chambered in a .30 cal cartridge, the Luger's main complaints in the beginning was that it wasn't powerful enough. So Luger figured that he could expand the bullet to 9mm without retooling and redesigning his pistol. That way, he could just put a larger bore barrel on it and go with it with a couple minor changes. Since it was the militaries asking for more power, the cartridge was named Parabellum - for war.

It's a marginal performer in a pistol and it is the least powerful cartridge I recommend (and carry myself) for personal protection. It is however; a decent performer in the longer barrel of a subgun.

Our military, when it cared about stopping power, and had a say in what it used to stop the enemy, wasn't impressed with 9mm. They requested test Lugers in .45 acp. Luger worked long and hard on making two prototypes and submitted them for tests (I believe Luger attended personally, but don't quote me on that), but then local events caused Luger to cancel the .45s for further testing when more pistols were requested by the US military as he now had a lucrative contract to make Lugers for the German military. (Of those two prototypes, one was used/abused by the US military in trials and no one knows what happened to it for sure, the other, which was largely unused, is the most valuable Luger in the world.)
 

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