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Thanks for the input.

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Thanks for the input.

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Thanks for the help folks. Time to see who is cheaper now, GA Arms or Independent.

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What is the difference in the powder load between the two weights. Seems to me that if you go with the 230 gr you'd have to give up powder space. Do you just compensate with a different powder, or what? Just seems that, if you change powder as you increase weight, differences in "kick" are not going to be discernible. Forgive me, but it's a question I've always wanted to ask, and this seems the opportune time. :?

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ETA: If you look at a reloading manual, you'll see pretty much across the board, lighter bullets get heavier powder loads compared to the heaviest bullets in the cartridge offerings..... But some cartridges are very versatile like the .30-06. If you look at the reloading manual, for the lightweight range of bullets, you'll find powders listed that build good pressure with lighter weight bullets... but then look at the heavy weight bullet range, and all the powders have changed due to the higher pressures of the heavier bullet and the powders listed will keep the pressure down.

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I can tell the difference between my full-size 1911 -vs- commander-size 1911....but not different bullet weights.

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I can feel the difference. Though it is slight the 230 feels to me like a heavier kick than the 185, not to mention the 230s shoot high in my 1911 so for me and my shooting style and setup I would go 185. You should go to the range with both and compare mags back to back with your setup!

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The seat of my pants tells me Chevron gasoline makes my car faster. Does it make it true? Maybe, maybe not. Only a dyno can tell.1clearshot said:

I can tell the difference between my full-size 1911 -vs- commander-size 1911....but not different bullet weights.

The recoil pulse may be different, but overall, I'm betting the "felt recoil" energy is approximately the same. The difference being perceived may only be the amount of rearward energy vs muzzle flip energy.

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Great postJiG said:The seat of my pants tells me Chevron gasoline makes my car faster. Does it make it true? Maybe, maybe not. Only a dyno can tell.1clearshot said:

I can tell the difference between my full-size 1911 -vs- commander-size 1911....but not different bullet weights.

The recoil pulse may be different, but overall, I'm betting the "felt recoil" energy is approximately the same. The difference being perceived may only be the amount of rearward energy vs muzzle flip energy.

As to recoil, to me the fell the same when used in the length of barrel they were intended for.

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Using this formula, you can calculate the amount of recoil for any given gun and load:

Free Recoil Energy (ft-lbs) = (W1 Vp + 4700 W2)squared / 64.348 Wg

W1 = weight of bullet in pounds

W2 = weight of powder charge in pounds

Wg = weight of gun in pounds

Vp = muzzle velocity of bullet in fps.

7000 grains in one pound

OK, let's do some math... I will be using the Lyman reloading manual for .45 acp and using max loads for 185 grain and 230 grain bullets using two different powders that are supposed to produce the same C.U.P. (pressure)

185 grain loads: Bullseye Powder = 5.6 grains... Velocity 975 fps. 16,600 C.U.P.

W1 = 185/7000= .026

W2 = 5.6/7000 = .0008

Wg = 2.44 (approx 1911 weight w/o magazine)

Vp = 975

(.026 x 975 + 4700 x .0008)squared / 64.348 x 2.44

(25.35 + 3.76)squared / 157.009

(29.11)squared / 157.009

847.392/157.009 =

--------------------------------------

230 grain loads: Power Pistol Powder = 7.2 grains... Velocity 858 fps 16,600 C.U.P.

W1 = 230/7000 = .032

W2 = 7.2/7000 = .001

Wg = 2.44 (same pistol weight)

Vp = 858

(.032 x 858 + 4700 x .001)squared / 64.348 x 2.44

(27.456 + 4.7)squared / 157.009

(32.156)squared / 157.009

1034.008 / 157.009 =

------------------------

Ok, what did we learn from that exercise? We learned that given the same pressure inside the barrel in the same weight pistol, the bigger bullet will recoil more..... there's that whole "equal and opposite" reaction thing showing up..... but if you are like me, you noticed that 975 fps is a bit slow for a 185 grain load.... let's look at something a little more normal in speed to compare with the relatively normal speed of 858 for the 230 grain.

A quick google search found that Remington standard load 185 grain ammo shoots 1015 fps.... so we'll use a load in the reloading manual that states 1015fps will be the velocity.... Lyman lists Blue Dot powder with 10.2 grains of powder.

W1 = 185/7000 = .026

W2 = 10.2 / 7000 = .0014

Wg = 2.44

Vp = 1015

(.026 x 1015 + 4700 x .0014)sq / 64.348 x 2.44

(26.39 + 6.58)sq / 157.009

(32.97)sq / 157.009

1087.021 / 157.009 =

What a difference 40 fps makes with 185 grain bullets. 975 fps produced only 5.397 ft-lbs of recoil, but sped up 40 fps faster, it had more recoil than the 230 grain load did. Not much more, and I'm betting the difference between the 1015 fps 185 grain load and the 858 fps 230 grain load wouldn't be perceptible to a human.

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I feel way smarter now. You lost me on the math tho. I couldn't tell what your order of operations were. Where's The Math Teacher?JiG said:

Using this formula, you can calculate the amount of recoil for any given gun and load:

Free Recoil Energy (ft-lbs) = (W1 Vp + 4700 W2)squared / 64.348 Wg

W1 = weight of bullet in pounds

W2 = weight of powder charge in pounds

Wg = weight of gun in pounds

Vp = muzzle velocity of bullet in fps.

7000 grains in one pound

OK, let's do some math... I will be using the Lyman reloading manual for .45 acp and using max loads for 185 grain and 230 grain bullets using two different powders that are supposed to produce the same C.U.P. (pressure)

185 grain loads: Bullseye Powder = 5.6 grains... Velocity 975 fps. 16,600 C.U.P.

W1 = 185/7000= .026

W2 = 5.6/7000 = .0008

Wg = 2.44 (approx 1911 weight w/o magazine)

Vp = 975

(.026 x 975 + 4700 x .0008)squared / 64.348 x 2.44

(25.35 + 3.76)squared / 157.009

(29.11)squared / 157.009

847.392/157.009 =5.397 ft-lbs of free recoil energy

--------------------------------------

230 grain loads: Power Pistol Powder = 7.2 grains... Velocity 858 fps 16,600 C.U.P.

W1 = 230/7000 = .032

W2 = 7.2/7000 = .001

Wg = 2.44 (same pistol weight)

Vp = 858

(.032 x 858 + 4700 x .001)squared / 64.348 x 2.44

(27.456 + 4.7)squared / 157.009

(32.156)squared / 157.009

1034.008 / 157.009 =6.58 ft-lbs of free recoil energy

------------------------

Ok, what did we learn from that exercise? We learned that given the same pressure inside the barrel in the same weight pistol, the bigger bullet will recoil more..... there's that whole "equal and opposite" reaction thing showing up..... but if you are like me, you noticed that 975 fps is a bit slow for a 185 grain load.... let's look at something a little more normal in speed to compare with the relatively normal speed of 858 for the 230 grain.

A quick google search found that Remington standard load 185 grain ammo shoots 1015 fps.... so we'll use a load in the reloading manual that states 1015fps will be the velocity.... Lyman lists Blue Dot powder with 10.2 grains of powder.

W1 = 185/7000 = .026

W2 = 10.2 / 7000 = .0014

Wg = 2.44

Vp = 1015

(.026 x 1015 + 4700 x .0014)sq / 64.348 x 2.44

(26.39 + 6.58)sq / 157.009

(32.97)sq / 157.009

1087.021 / 157.009 =6.923 ft-lbs of free recoil energy

What a difference 40 fps makes with 185 grain bullets. 975 fps produced only 5.397 ft-lbs of recoil, but sped up 40 fps faster, it had more recoil than the 230 grain load did. Not much more, and I'm betting the difference between the 1015 fps 185 grain load and the 858 fps 230 grain load wouldn't be perceptible to a human.

Thanks everyone for the help. I never would have figured this for the outcome. Glad I asked.

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Thanks JiG, for the mathematical proof....

You NEED to get out more....

I'm serious.

You NEED to get out more....

I'm serious.

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I do, seriously....1clearshot said:Thanks JiG, for the mathematical proof....

You NEED to get out more....

I'm serious.

Saturday, I was in Gainesville, then to Athens, back to Cornelia, then to Conyers, then finally back home for the evening.

Today, I had to go to Gainesville again and then to Spartanburg, SC. Just got back a little bit ago.

I love my job. I never know what my day will bring me, what paths I will take, and the places and people I'll see and meet. But all that driving does afford me some time to contemplate "stuff".

As far as that post was concerned, that was me just using a reloading manual. The formula is in the back of the book. All you have to do is find and input the data and put it to practical use. Anybody who took basic algebra should be able to do it.

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just sayin'

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