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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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No such thing as one shot stops.

The data used in the first link is flawed. I read this somewhere and cannot recall where I originally found it. Perhaps someone else here read the same thing and knows what I am talking about.

Basically, you are not going to find something that is going to physically stop a human in one shot in a handgun caliber. And if you do it is because either they are psychologically shocked into stopping the attack or they were shot in the CNS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don't know...

A one shot stop can also occur with a wound to the thoracic or abdominal aorta, which causes an immediate bleedout and state of shock.
Hitting the heart will work well too.
Other areas can include rupturing the spleen which will cause immediate shock, and collapsing a lung will also work pretty well!

You are correct, that the psychological trauma of being shot may lead to a drop attack, assuming we are not being attacked by a crack head or meth user.

Hatchers theory of "Bigger is better" probably doesn't hold true, as the +p and +p+ ammo will have a greater energy value than some bigger loads.

I would be interested to read other sources of info on this subject, of course! :D

Most of my FBI and local LEO pals (from outside my county) don't really have anything more that rumer to share with me. It seems there may be no "conclusive " data to draw from.

I just don't want to trust my life to ballistic jello!!! :2cents:

This could best be further discussed in a better setting :cheers:
 

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Even a hit to a major artery or total destruction of the heart allows the attacker ~20 seconds to continue the fight.

I personally believe that the 9mm is the best fit for me because of the larger ammo capacity and relatively less recoil of the 9mm
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I agree

I would tend to agree with you that the 9mm has a nice mix of minimum recoil, good balliatics, and jacketed hollow points are nice too!

My only other carry besides a Glock26 is my new Px4, but it prints alot more! The Beretta is a 40 S&W, but the recoil is less than the nine.

Whats your carry gun?
 

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Rammstein said:
The data used in the first link is flawed. I read this somewhere and cannot recall where I originally found it. Perhaps someone else here read the same thing and knows what I am talking about.
Sanow’s quality is garbage in, garbage out, yet he insists his "street results" are, by far, the most accurate method for determining/predicting "street effectiveness."
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs8.htm

We pointed out in IWBA Bulletin No. 1/92, that three academic statisticians had judged, independently, the Marshall/Sanow one-shot stop data to be bogus, i.e., made up to fit a preconceived theory. Since that time, another renown academic, Dr. Carroll Peters, Professor of Engineering at the University of Tennessee calculated the probability that they could be true to be one in ten to the twentieth power (1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000). Dr. Peters' paper describing his analysis will soon appear in print.
. . .
This means that, given the methods Marshall claims to have used, only 29% of his incidents could be expected to yield consistent results (i.e., more disruptive bullets showing greater effects than less disruptive bullets).
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs24.htm (THis one has a brief response by Sanow to his critics)

A six page review of the book, with this conclusion: "Street Stoppers" is a compilation of fantasy: written in the arrogant, dead certain tone of the con man.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/streetstoppers.htm

Closing the Book on Marshall & Sanow's One-shot Stopping Power Fraud

We're closing the book on Marshall and Sanow by making several reference articles freely available on the Internet, where they'll be available to anyone and everyone who's interested in the details.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs31.htm
 

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I agree with Rammstein.....

Even though I still consider myself very new in learning about ammunition and firearms, I took what my uncle told me one day. The most important thing about what caliber, what size firearm, all the different combinations of grain, type of jacket, it all comes down to comfort.

In a self defense situation, which we as daily citizens dont see everyday even if you train for these situations, comfort with your sidearm is the most important aspect I believe. At least thats what I have been reading around different circles.

Questions I ask myself:

Could I hit an attacker on the first shot? How many shots would it take in the amount of space I have in an encounter given the amount of time I have before he or they are trying to disarm or shooting at me!

I dont see caliber as important as being of the proper mindset and placing a lethal shot. Being comfortable and in my case having enough rounds to feel I have a standing chance, especially if there is more than one attacker, are my preferences.

Just my .02 cents
 

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Taler,

If thats what a person feels comfortable with than sure. If thats what they shoot accurately with and the comfort level is with a .22 then thats their preferance. I rely on comfort rather than caliber. And for me 9mm is what I have the most time with. I am not saying it is better than a .45 or anything like that. I just think caliber sometimes gets over stressed than being comfortable with your sidearm and being able to respond accurately with it.
 

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Sharky said:
Taler,

If thats what a person feels comfortable with than sure. If thats what they shoot accurately with and the comfort level is with a .22 then thats their preferance. I rely on comfort rather than caliber. And for me 9mm is what I have the most time with. I am not saying it is better than a .45 or anything like that. I just think caliber sometimes gets over stressed than being comfortable with your sidearm and being able to respond accurately with it.
I like 9mm, too! So long as it is in a submachinegun! :D
 

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I guess this qualifies as stopping power...

I read somewhere about the NYPD Stakeout Squad asking the Medical Examiner's office for help with this subject. They frequently shoot people (apparently) and weren't always getting the hoped-for results.

The ME's office advised them to go for the hip area rather than upper body.

The reason being a shot to the upper thigh, family jewels, hip joint, pelvis or whatever would almost always drop the bad guy. It wouldn't necessarily stop the BG from shooting, but would pretty much guarantee putting his ass on the floor.

Maybe I can find the article. If so, I'll post a link.
 

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Foul said:
One shot stopper?

Could be done...but CCW would be kinda tough...

That would be effective at turning your attacker into a fine red mist :shock:
 

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Macktee said:
I guess this qualifies as stopping power...

I read somewhere about the NYPD Stakeout Squad asking the Medical Examiner's office for help with this subject. They frequently shoot people (apparently) and weren't always getting the hoped-for results.

The ME's office advised them to go for the hip area rather than upper body.

The reason being a shot to the upper thigh, family jewels, hip joint, pelvis or whatever would almost always drop the bad guy. It wouldn't necessarily stop the BG from shooting, but would pretty much guarantee putting his ass on the floor.

Maybe I can find the article. If so, I'll post a link.
They go down easier because the pelvis is the support structure for the body. Break that and the building falls. Not to mention the high concentration of large blood vessels.
 

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.500 S&W + FACE = 1 shot stop.


now i look hopelessly ignorant.
but i couldn't help it.

I apologize in advance.
 
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