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Carrying between work and home without a license

6K views 49 replies 14 participants last post by  ClarkeKlutz 
#1 ·
I got my gun, and got an appointment with the clerk of court to get a carry license. Turns out Clarke County has like a 4 month wait, though, so I've got 3 months to go.

Now, I'm renting an apartment and I own a business that leases a warehouse building.

I can park right in front of either and walk inside, but....

In theory, do I need to do anything in particular between the front door of my apartment and my car?

Do I need to do anything in particular between the front door of my warehouse and my car?

Can I carry it concealed on that 10-foot walk or does it need to be unloaded and in a box?

Assume I'm parking on private property, and that the parking space is reserved for the building I am renting or leasing.
 
#3 ·
Nope, my warehouse is like half a mile from my house, and not in an area with any schools.

Nearest K-12 is an elementary school 3 miles away.

There was a private after-school tutoring center a mile south, but they shuttered two years ago.

That being said, thanks for sharing that, it's great information.

I assume "locked in a case" doesn't mean "in a closed center console in my car", right?
 
#4 · (Edited)
legally, a person without a GWL can't carry on the public sidewalk, or even the "common areas" of an apartment complex, while going to and from their motor vehicle.
Unless the gun is unloaded and secured in a container / box / range bag, etc.

Your home doesn't mean the entire grounds of the apartment complex where you rent a unit. It means just the one unit that is private and for your use only.

So, technically, you'd need a GWL to get the gun to and from your car in the same condition you'd keep it for personal protection as you drive or for home defense.

Edit: Same thing for work. GWL carry license needed for any public property when you're outside of your vehicle, and not yet at your place of work, unlesss it's unloaded and boxed. I don't think there's controlling caselaw on this point, but I'll assume that because the parking lot and other common areas of the facility you work at is not all part of your workplace, not exclusively for your use, it's like the "common areas" of a residential apartment complex. License needed.

https://www.georgiapacking.org/caselaw/elyvstate.htm
 
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#6 ·
Federal law doesn't trump state law as to the effect of a GWL in a school zone; rather, the federal law very specifically EXEMPTS any person who has a state-issued weapons carry permit from the same state where the school is.

I think this is something we as gun advocates (and G.C.O. members) should argue to the legislators when our allies introduce a pro-gun, pro-carry reform bill that makes it legal for GWL holders to carry at all schools-- public and private, k-12, and all colleges, universities, trade and technical schools. Just remind them that we're just proposing to follow the longtime federal law on this point. For nearly 30 years, holders of state-issued gun carry permits have been legal under federal law to carry at and near schools, and it has NOT BEEN A PROBLEM, at all, ever, anywhere. Gun permit holders are no threat to schools.
 
#24 ·
Also, the Federal law needs to change, so that the exemption covers a carrier with a GWL (or any state gun license) in a state with reprocity.
 
#7 · (Edited)
We've established that I'm not carrying concealed to the car.

How COULD I carry it to the car?

As to the parking lot question, I'm looking at § 16-11-126. and this line:

(c) Any person who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun or long gun may have or carry any handgun provided that it is enclosed in a case and unloaded.

Unloaded means nothing in the chamber, that's easy to understand and clearly specified in the law.

Is there a legal definition for "in a case" ?

Would a messenger bag or fanny pack count or do I need to use the black plastic factory case?
 
#8 ·
Who says "unloaded" has a specific definition in Georgia's laws found in title 16 chapter 11 on the topic of "weapons carrying" offenses?

I don't know of any such definition of unloaded except as applied to hunting and fishing regulations, and transporting firearms in public wildlife management areas.

I would err on the side of caution and assume that IF a law demands a gun be be "unloaded" THEN it must be fully unloaded in both magazine and chamber (or all cylinders, for a revolver).
 
#9 ·
My guess is that a fanny pack, when fully closed through the use of its buttons zippers or Velcro closing material, would satisfy the legal definition of being encased.

I think your loaded magazine could be in the case also,
but for the sake of speed and familiarity with your other gun training and your shooting drills at the range, you may want to carry your magazine in a mag holder on your belt.

But, all this will be moot once you get your GWL.
 
#11 · (Edited)
But, all this will be moot once you get your GWL.
I just discovered there's a charter high school 600 feet from the Interstate I travel on in order to get to the range.

So, for school zones with no GWL, "fanny pack in trunk with empty chamber and no magazine inside the gun" is good enough, or do I need to also use the orange gun lock that my Glock came with?

On edit: point taken as to the meaning of "unloaded" under state law. I may have been thick-headed there.
 
#10 ·
If a law does not specify a definition of a word, the law says people are to use the normal and common definition as understood by the American people, or as might be found in a common dictionary

Among ordinary intelligent Americans who speak English, does the phrase "unloaded gun" mean gun that has a fully loaded magazine locked in place, even if the chamber is empty?

Or among gun experts, in the shooting community of gun lovers, is there a special meaning assigned to the word "unloaded gun" that makes it interchangeable with "empty chamber?"

I mean, I'm kind of new to firearms and shooting; I've only been involved in it for 45 years and have written books on the subject and have a closet full of trophies from shooting matches. I look forward to learning more things from people who can teach me the real meaning of these words and phrases that I've heard (and apparently incorrectly used) in the past.
 
#12 ·
The phrase "place of business," as used in the act of 1910 regulating the carrying of pistols (Acts 1910, p. 134), as related to a farm laborer, ex vi termini includes the specific portion of a farm or plantation where one employs his time and makes his living, and it includes the whole farm or plantation, if he is employed to work and does work, when so directed, in any and every part of it. If one's business is farming, his place of business is not confined to houses, but may be in the field, the woodland, the meadow, or at any other place on the farm where his business of farming requires his presence.

. . .

The court (after correctly stating the rule as it should be applied in case of the proprietor, or person in control of the plantation) charged the jury that, as to "an employé whose only duty it is to work upon any portion of the farm as might be directed of him by his employer or by the person in charge and management of the farm, and who has no other control or management of the farm except to work thereon as directed by such manager, overseer, or owner, such farm would not, within the meaning of this statute, constitute the place of business of such employé, so as to permit him to carry a pistol without first having taken out a license so to do." The court refused to charge that: "If a wage hand, a cropper, or a tenant, employed on a farm and whose duty is to work on the farm or any part of the employer's plantation or farm where he is directed to labor, or where he has possession of the farm, either as a farm hand, cropper, or tenant, he would have the right to have in his manual possession thereon a pistol without first procuring a license from the ordinary of the county."

We consider the point settled by the ruling in Coker v. State, 12 Ga. App. 425, 76 S. E. 103, 991, and we hold that the court erred in the instruction given. We cannot concur in the view taken by the learned solicitor general that it was the intention of the lawmakers to confer upon landed proprietors privileges to which their fellow citizens who might happen to be farm laborers would not be entitled, or to deprive a farm laborer of the right of openly carrying a pistol, as need might require, at his home or place of business, while according that right to others whose only claim to this partiality lies in their property interests. If, under any circumstances, there is any necessity for one to have a pistol at his place of business, the necessity is as apt to arise in the case of a laborer as in that of a landed proprietor. The possession of a pistol in either case could be justified only upon some principle of law which might justify its use. And, under these circumstances, the possession of a pistol might be absolutely necessary. Certainly it cannot be contended that, even though one is a mere farm laborer, he should be left defenseless (at the place of business where he is compelled to work) against an unlawful and felonious attack which he might have good reason to apprehend, unless he sees proper, and likewise has the opportunity, to obtain a license to carry his pistol, and yet the more favored landowner not be subjected to such a requirement. The law must be administered with uniformity and impartiality. Without regard to social or financial status, the Legislature has seen fit to permit the citizen to have and carry a pistol without a license at his home and place of business, and no question of policy or expediency can be permitted to vary the plain letter of the law or its apparent spirit.

In view of the error in the court's instruction, the court erred in refusing a new trial.

Judgment reversed.

https://www.georgiapacking.org/caselaw/idellettvstate.htm
 
#13 ·
Well, I guess since I do occasionally clean my parking lot and load and unload trucks in my parking lot, I can theoretically carry to and from the parking spaces in front of my office.

Or when walking one of my ladies out to her car after dark, I guess, although the walk isn't terribly long.

Doesn't particularly help with getting to and from my car in the apartment complex, unless we try to stretch the fact that I work from home and have to carry the company laptop and prototype products to and from the car. I don't like gambling with my liberty, though, so... not trying that.
 
#18 ·
I'm in Clarke County, and with the recently-elected DA, I'm almost expecting them to disarm the police.

I've got no expectation I'll get a pass on anything that's "technically illegal, but doesn't violate the intent of the law" where being a middle-aged white guy with a firearm is involved.
 
#23 ·
You do have options if you want to follow the law as it's written.

You can openly carry a rifle between your apartment and your car. If you can find one, you could carry a .17 hmr pistol. A black powdered firearm. A pistol with a barrel over 12".
 
#26 ·
I've been looking at the situation, and technically my unit is in a duplex.

My unit gets two parking spots, directly in front of it.

No one else from the complex has any business on my half of the parking lot.

I *think* I might be good, but my larger problem is the fact that Athens Tech is between me and the local Dunkin' Donuts, causing a school zone issue.

Maybe the administration at the college is just trying to keep me from getting diabetes....
 
#28 ·
my larger problem is the fact that Athens Tech is between me and the local Dunkin' Donuts, causing a school zone issue.

Maybe the administration at the college is just trying to keep me from getting diabetes....
No school zone issue.

18 U.S. Code § 921
(a)(26) The term "school" means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.
 
#27 ·
Another thing that you have going for you is a gamble, but I think the odds are decent.

If a cop just happened to notice a bulge under your shirt or jacket, and just happened to stop you and ask if you are armed, and if the cop happened to be a reasonable person, and you explained your rationale, then I bet at worst, the cop would let you go on, with a verbal warning at the most. I mean, you are doing all that you can to get a license as quickly as possible, and you are being as quick and going as directly as you can, from place to place where a license isn't required.

Or the cop could be a true dickhead, and bust yo' ass.

But I think the former is more likely than the latter. That is a risk I would take, personally. Everything is a gamble.
 
#37 ·
There are a lot of disconnects between the wording of the federal statute and how things are done in GA. First of all, federal law includes a 1,000 buffer around a school and GA law does not. So it's difficult to say that anyone has a license from the state to possess a firearm off school property but in that buffer. GA does not issue licenses to possess firearms generally (only licenses to carry). But even if you say the GWL is a license to possess, in order to qualify under federal law, the eligibility for the license has to be checked by the state's law enforcement authorities. That doesn't happen in GA. Eligibility in GA is checked by a probate judge. And for reciprocal licenses, GA's law enforcement authorities do not check anything at all.
 
#43 ·
Is there not a car exception to the 1000 ft school zone bubble? There is a lot about that law that should have gotten in thrown out as unconstitutional a second time.

In East Ridge, TN, one school is crammed in between businesses on the main road with densely-populated neighborhoods behind it. Under the interpretation that an out-of-state but reciprocated license (such as a GWCL) does not allow carrying within a 1000 feet, a Georgia resident couldn't get gas, go out to eat, go to Wal-Mart or CVS, or visit a friend while carrying with a GWCL in this area. Also, who measures the 1000 ft? From the edge of the property, or the front door of the school? 1000 ft from the edge of the property puts the bubble across a major road and into a huge cluster of houses. I think the the high school is just far enough away that its 1000 ft bubble would just touch an elementary school's bubble, effectively making a 2000-ft zone of exclusion.
 
#44 ·
A conviction under this law is a Federal permanent ban on possessing a firearm (except black powder), unless you get a Presidential pardon.

I think a person charged, without committing any other violation, would have a good shot at the courts shutting this law down as a violation of the Second Amendment.
 
#47 ·
A conviction under this law is a Federal permanent ban on possessing a firearm (except black powder), unless you get a Presidential pardon.

I think a person charged, without committing any other violation, would have a good shot at the courts shutting this law down as a violation of the Second Amendment.
When you say "without committing any other violation" are you including traffic offenses?

Or is this like in North Carolina a couple decades ago where they had a sodomy law, but would only use it to enhance sentencing when a guy had also committed forcible rape?
 
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